I'm out in the shop today trying to get my deere running before the big melt... I install the head gaskets and they will not crush down to allow the brass washer to seat. I have a bigger head gasket problem now than I did with the old one. Anyone else run into this?
Im sure my heads can't be that warped, it didn't leak so bad I could hear and feel wind coming out the heads. I took great caution in preparing the surfaces for the new gaskets, I even removed the studs so I could get them perfect.
NOS gasket sets beware! :$
NOS gasket sets beware! :$
1980 Liquifre 440 survivor
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harleysportster
- Posts: 2965
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Pat Scott
- Location: Southeast Pa.
Re: NOS gasket sets beware! :$
It is not uncommon for the head to be warped after disasembly. It seems to be the norm on a 30 + year old engine. You should take the head & cylinder to a machine shop and have them check it out. what engine?motoXman wrote:I'm out in the shop today trying to get my deere running before the big melt... I install the head gaskets and they will not crush down to allow the brass washer to seat. I have a bigger head gasket problem now than I did with the old one. Anyone else run into this?
Im sure my heads can't be that warped, it didn't leak so bad I could hear and feel wind coming out the heads. I took great caution in preparing the surfaces for the new gaskets, I even removed the studs so I could get them perfect.
'76 440 cyclone
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
Re: NOS gasket sets beware! :$
I thought that it could be possibly warped, what's strange is the brass sealing washer doesn't appear to even be crushing down.. I think the gasket is that hardened. I didn't want to take the cylinders off, if I do that I may aswell just call it a season and start my restore. I'm trying to make it a rider and work all the cobwebs out just for the moment.
It's an 80 liquifire with the 440 Kawi motor
It's an 80 liquifire with the 440 Kawi motor
1980 Liquifre 440 survivor
Re: NOS gasket sets beware! :$
motoXman,
Just a couple of suggestions here to add to harleysportster's on your Liquifire -
I have built a fair amount of the Liquifire engines using NOS Kawasaki/Deere gasket sets with pretty much minimal problems. Most guys on this forum use them with very little problem other than having to perform a re-torque once or twice. The copper should be fine as they are new gaskets and will not be "work-hardened".
I noticed in your photos of your engine the shiny new hardware (cylinder head nuts, lockwashers and heavy flat washers).. I am curious if you replaced the nuts with another type of hardware and the stud may be bottoming in the nut, preventing the nut from bearing down on the washers? I ask this since i at one time got a sample of a metric chrome acorn nut from an industrial supplier that had all the same specs except one - it did not have enough internal clearance for the stud or in simple terms the "dome" was not tall enough. Remove the nuts and look very CAREFULLY at the end of the stud as well as the inside of the nuts - if you see shiny marks, the stud is bottoming in the nut, thus not effectively clamping the cylinder head casting down.
If you used the original nuts, did you chase them with a tap as well as the studs? Remember to lubricate threads since most torque values are based on a lubricated fastener.
Hope this helps!
Just a couple of suggestions here to add to harleysportster's on your Liquifire -
I have built a fair amount of the Liquifire engines using NOS Kawasaki/Deere gasket sets with pretty much minimal problems. Most guys on this forum use them with very little problem other than having to perform a re-torque once or twice. The copper should be fine as they are new gaskets and will not be "work-hardened".
I noticed in your photos of your engine the shiny new hardware (cylinder head nuts, lockwashers and heavy flat washers).. I am curious if you replaced the nuts with another type of hardware and the stud may be bottoming in the nut, preventing the nut from bearing down on the washers? I ask this since i at one time got a sample of a metric chrome acorn nut from an industrial supplier that had all the same specs except one - it did not have enough internal clearance for the stud or in simple terms the "dome" was not tall enough. Remove the nuts and look very CAREFULLY at the end of the stud as well as the inside of the nuts - if you see shiny marks, the stud is bottoming in the nut, thus not effectively clamping the cylinder head casting down.
If you used the original nuts, did you chase them with a tap as well as the studs? Remember to lubricate threads since most torque values are based on a lubricated fastener.
Hope this helps!
1981 Trailfire 440 (Original Owner)
1980 Liquifire
1981 Sportfire
1983 Sprintfire
1982 Snowfire
1978 CC Liquifire
1979 340 Trailfire
1982 Trailfire Special
1980 Liquifire
1981 Sportfire
1983 Sprintfire
1982 Snowfire
1978 CC Liquifire
1979 340 Trailfire
1982 Trailfire Special
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Flatlander
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:47 pm
- Location: NE Kansas
Re: NOS gasket sets beware! :$
I just recently rebuilt a 340 invader and it ran super for 2 days. I missed the part in all of my reading that toymech said "Most guys on this forum use them with very little problem other than having to perform a re-torque once or twice."
The kids had it out and I knew everything was "right" with this machine but it died......pulled it in - compression low on one side. Cleaned the heads and gaskets, rechased the studs, counted the threads, retorqued......first pull after reassembly and it was good as new. Ran it a cycle and retorqued - there is a difference....ran it and retorqued - there is a difference.....
Just saying re-check that torque on those heads......
The kids had it out and I knew everything was "right" with this machine but it died......pulled it in - compression low on one side. Cleaned the heads and gaskets, rechased the studs, counted the threads, retorqued......first pull after reassembly and it was good as new. Ran it a cycle and retorqued - there is a difference....ran it and retorqued - there is a difference.....
Just saying re-check that torque on those heads......
Flatlander from KS
flatlander2222@gmail.com
Praying for Snow
'01 SXR 700
'80 Drifter
'79 Invader 340
'79 TK
'80 Liquifire (2) Future WORK IN PROGRESS
'81 Liquifire Current WORK IN PROGRESS
'83 Liquifire Future WORK IN PROGRESS
'84 Liquifire Future WORK IN PROGRESS
flatlander2222@gmail.com
Praying for Snow
'01 SXR 700
'80 Drifter
'79 Invader 340
'79 TK
'80 Liquifire (2) Future WORK IN PROGRESS
'81 Liquifire Current WORK IN PROGRESS
'83 Liquifire Future WORK IN PROGRESS
'84 Liquifire Future WORK IN PROGRESS
Re: NOS gasket sets beware! :$
The acorn nuts pictured here are the old ones I took out. I just wire-wheeled them back to new. The thick flat washers I sandblasted then wired-wheeled them. The lock washers are new. I can actually thread the acorn nuts flush to the head without any washers so I know they Aren't bottoming out. And strangely enough I replaced the NOS gaskets with the Windrosa kit and it seems as though my problem is gone. Thx Matt! Knock on wood I have no further issues here. Just add snow now..
1980 Liquifre 440 survivor
Re: NOS gasket sets beware! :$
Glad to hear you got her sorted out - Like you say, just add snow now!
1981 Trailfire 440 (Original Owner)
1980 Liquifire
1981 Sportfire
1983 Sprintfire
1982 Snowfire
1978 CC Liquifire
1979 340 Trailfire
1982 Trailfire Special
1980 Liquifire
1981 Sportfire
1983 Sprintfire
1982 Snowfire
1978 CC Liquifire
1979 340 Trailfire
1982 Trailfire Special