Swap meet suspension
- 400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
Swap meet suspension
I've never been a big fan of swaps, as you have to walk and walk, dig and dig, and I never find anything cool anyway.
But Sunday up in St Germain I did find something kind of interesting, and I beat Rainville to it by just a few minutes!
It appears to have '78 CC rails and rear axle, while the arms appear to be '80s LF. The three idler wheels were what caught my eye, and the aluminum spacers sealed the deal. Chuck had passed on it earlier in the morning, he told me he had enough junk, which was good for me, because I don't feel I do yet.
Note the extra pair of fittings on the rails forward of the front arms, for little idler wheels. '78 front arms would not have the welded on loops on top. A '78 rear arm would not have the idlers mounted to it, those are both newer parts.
The steel bracket at the rear of the rails is riveted on the production rails, but bolted on the CC rails.
Last night, Rainville and I had a '78 skid, and an 80 skid lined up on the bench beside this one. As others have noted, there is little practical difference between the 78 CC and the 80. In other words, not too hard to clone a 78 CC out of a 80.
But Sunday up in St Germain I did find something kind of interesting, and I beat Rainville to it by just a few minutes!
It appears to have '78 CC rails and rear axle, while the arms appear to be '80s LF. The three idler wheels were what caught my eye, and the aluminum spacers sealed the deal. Chuck had passed on it earlier in the morning, he told me he had enough junk, which was good for me, because I don't feel I do yet.
Note the extra pair of fittings on the rails forward of the front arms, for little idler wheels. '78 front arms would not have the welded on loops on top. A '78 rear arm would not have the idlers mounted to it, those are both newer parts.
The steel bracket at the rear of the rails is riveted on the production rails, but bolted on the CC rails.
Last night, Rainville and I had a '78 skid, and an 80 skid lined up on the bench beside this one. As others have noted, there is little practical difference between the 78 CC and the 80. In other words, not too hard to clone a 78 CC out of a 80.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
-
- Posts: 2965
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Pat Scott
- Location: Southeast Pa.
Re: Swap meet suspension
Cool find, I would be interested in the break-down of the rear axle.
'76 440 cyclone
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
- 400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
Re: Swap meet suspension
The axle is aluminum, the teardrop spacers are aluminum, but the square spacers outside of the rails are steel.
As you might expect, everything is solid. I'm pondering how to get it apart. I'm willing to sacrifice the axle and the center wheel, but nothing else. It looks like the axle is bent in the center slightly as well, so even if if was loose, it probably wouldn't slide out.
I'll keep you posted.
As you might expect, everything is solid. I'm pondering how to get it apart. I'm willing to sacrifice the axle and the center wheel, but nothing else. It looks like the axle is bent in the center slightly as well, so even if if was loose, it probably wouldn't slide out.
I'll keep you posted.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
- I500
- Posts: 1264
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:00 am
- Real Name: Chuck Moser
- Location: Wyoming Minnesota
Re: Swap meet suspension
Tasky must be pulling all his hair out right now. That suspension was his.
Re: Swap meet suspension
Not mine. The first time I saw it was in the back of Brian's truck.
- 400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
Re: Swap meet suspension
I've removed the rear arm from the skid. Then unbolted the rear brackets from the rails, and removed the entire rear axle assembly as a unit. I successfully disassembled the axle without destroying anything! With one of the square spacers in the vise ( the axle upright ) I applied a bit of heat, penetrating oil, and applied a large Crescent wrench along with a four foot section of pipe. I finally broke the upper spacer loose, but it refused to come off the shaft until everything had cooled, and much twisting and oil had been applied.
The center idler easily popped right off in the press, so now all that remained was the last steel spacer ( as both of the teardrop spacers were loose ). I got everything set up and started pumping the jack...things started creaking...I was getting as far away as I could..finally; POP!
Was it off? NO, it had moved! It came hard every bit of the way. I finally had to screw a long bolt into the end of the shaft so I could continue pushing, but it did eventually come apart.
I have no intention of re-using the shaft, an idler wheel bearing has spun on one side, so it is worn a bit, but I think steel is a better choice. The left rail has been worn almost to the hyfax. Either circle track racing, or a bad bearing and a misaligned track for a long time. Not sure what I can do about that yet.
Here are some photos of the spacers.
The aluminum extrusion: 3.25" long x 1.125 dia, with 3/4" bore. Note section of teardrop is relieved to clear idler wheel bearing.
Steel spacer: 1.125 square bar x 1.75" long, with 3/4" bore. Aprox .10" shoulder x .15 deep to fit into slot in bracket.
The center idler easily popped right off in the press, so now all that remained was the last steel spacer ( as both of the teardrop spacers were loose ). I got everything set up and started pumping the jack...things started creaking...I was getting as far away as I could..finally; POP!
Was it off? NO, it had moved! It came hard every bit of the way. I finally had to screw a long bolt into the end of the shaft so I could continue pushing, but it did eventually come apart.
I have no intention of re-using the shaft, an idler wheel bearing has spun on one side, so it is worn a bit, but I think steel is a better choice. The left rail has been worn almost to the hyfax. Either circle track racing, or a bad bearing and a misaligned track for a long time. Not sure what I can do about that yet.
Here are some photos of the spacers.
The aluminum extrusion: 3.25" long x 1.125 dia, with 3/4" bore. Note section of teardrop is relieved to clear idler wheel bearing.
Steel spacer: 1.125 square bar x 1.75" long, with 3/4" bore. Aprox .10" shoulder x .15 deep to fit into slot in bracket.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
Re: Swap meet suspension
400brian wrote:I've removed the rear arm from the skid. Then unbolted the rear brackets from the rails, and removed the entire rear axle assembly as a unit. I successfully disassembled the axle without destroying anything! With one of the square spacers in the vise ( the axle upright ) I applied a bit of heat, penetrating oil, and applied a large Crescent wrench along with a four foot section of pipe. I finally broke the upper spacer loose, but it refused to come off the shaft until everything had cooled, and much twisting and oil had been applied.
The center idler easily popped right off in the press, so now all that remained was the last steel spacer ( as both of the teardrop spacers were loose ). I got everything set up and started pumping the jack...things started creaking...I was getting as far away as I could..finally; POP!
Was it off? NO, it had moved! It came hard every bit of the way. I finally had to screw a long bolt into the end of the shaft so I could continue pushing, but it did eventually come apart.
I have no intention of re-using the shaft, an idler wheel bearing has spun on one side, so it is worn a bit, but I think steel is a better choice. The left rail has been worn almost to the hyfax. Either circle track racing, or a bad bearing and a misaligned track for a long time. Not sure what I can do about that yet.
Here are some photos of the spacers.
The aluminum extrusion: 3.25" long x 1.125 dia, with 3/4" bore. Note section of teardrop is relieved to clear idler wheel bearing.
Steel spacer: 1.125 square bar x 1.75" long, with 3/4" bore. Aprox .10" shoulder x .15 deep to fit into slot in bracket.
Those teardrop spacers look like an interesting thing to manufacture
Adam Epp
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
74 400 (2 - sold)
75 800 (motor in pieces, next on the resto list)
75 X4 Special (bare tunnel, stripped)
76 340 Cyclone (resto in progress)
76 340 Cyclone (bare tunnel, stripped)
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
74 400 (2 - sold)
75 800 (motor in pieces, next on the resto list)
75 X4 Special (bare tunnel, stripped)
76 340 Cyclone (resto in progress)
76 340 Cyclone (bare tunnel, stripped)
- WinnipegStPaul9
- Posts: 5577
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Don Amber
- Location: Churubusco, IN
Re: Swap meet suspension
Here's a picture taken when the suspension was removed from my CC originally. The only function of the center pieces is to 1. Act as a spacer and 2. incorporate a place for the adjuster screw to fit. Unless you wanted a "pure" CC suspension, you could make this piece easily and it would not have to be tapered.
Feel free to check out our website www.buscobullet.com for restorations or parts.
- 400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
Re: Swap meet suspension
Don has it right. Troy is sitting on a box of square tubing that I sent him a while back, to make these spacers out of.
I see no reason it won't work. For an '80 axle bracket you could make just one spacer for each side, while the CC bracket requires two for each side.
I see no reason it won't work. For an '80 axle bracket you could make just one spacer for each side, while the CC bracket requires two for each side.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
-
- Posts: 2965
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Pat Scott
- Location: Southeast Pa.
Re: Swap meet suspension
What do you think of starting with an '80's axle, cutting it up in sections for fitment of the center wheel and drilling out the middle of each peice for a center axle?400brian wrote:Don has it right. Troy is sitting on a box of square tubing that I sent him a while back, to make these spacers out of.
I see no reason it won't work. For an '80 axle bracket you could make just one spacer for each side, while the CC bracket requires two for each side.
'76 440 cyclone
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
- 400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
Re: Swap meet suspension
Pat
That would work. But with the square tubing, all you have to do is cut the slots, and use the steel axle.
Take your pick I guess.
That would work. But with the square tubing, all you have to do is cut the slots, and use the steel axle.
Take your pick I guess.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
- JoeRainville
- Posts: 4355
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: "John Deere Joe"
- Location: Fort Worth, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Swap meet suspension
Hey Brian and Guys,
I think I have a box of those steel spacers used on the ends of the rear axle. I will be up in NY at the end of June, and I will be sure to grab them.
-Joe
I think I have a box of those steel spacers used on the ends of the rear axle. I will be up in NY at the end of June, and I will be sure to grab them.
-Joe
Honorary Tech Editor
Chuck Norris doesn't get frost bite. He bites the frost.
Chuck Norris doesn't get frost bite. He bites the frost.
-
- Posts: 2965
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Pat Scott
- Location: Southeast Pa.
Re: Swap meet suspension
Brian, your idea would be easier.400brian wrote:Pat
That would work. But with the square tubing, all you have to do is cut the slots, and use the steel axle.
Take your pick I guess.
Joe, let us know what you find.
'76 440 cyclone
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
-
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
Re: Swap meet suspension
Brian, Does that suspension have the steel spacers for the center outboard large wheels? As they weren't welded to the center tower like the 80-84's were...
I'll get your order out later this week...
Grumpy
I'll get your order out later this week...
Grumpy
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
- 400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
Re: Swap meet suspension
KennyICCSF 108 wrote:Brian, Does that suspension have the steel spacers for the center outboard large wheels? As they weren't welded to the center tower like the 80-84's were...
I'll get your order out later this week...
Grumpy
Both the CC suspension and the 80 suspension I have in my possession, have a steel spacer behind the center wheel.
Neither are welded to anything. Rainville was commenting that he didn't remember this to be the case on 80 skids, but there it was. I have no clue.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.