Book Club - Chapter 1 Discussion

[Matt]

I thought it might be fun to have a discussion about the John Deere Snowmobiles book. I will make a post for each chapter so that people can go to the post for each chapter after reading it.

Chapter 1 - Origin & Growth of the John Deere Company
This chapter covers a brief history of the company from the beginning, leading up to the final decision to move forward with snowmobile development and production. At the end it talks about the decision to go with a mid-mount engine vs. a front mount engine. Arctic Cat was front-mount, while Ski-Doo, and I believe the majority of the rest of the market at the time, was mid-mount. I'm not quite clear on why Deere chose mid-mount. The book suggests there were reliability concerns with front-mounts. Thoughts? What were the reliability concerns?

[WinnipegStPaul9]

I've just started Chapter 8 (Racing) and I guess my one comment would be that the book is very technical in nature. It's as much a study of business and engineering as opposed to a "fluffy" book.

DA

[JRC ETD]

Great read, Ron and Dick worked hard! Deere is very analytical and Ski Doo was the market leader with a mid mount design, so Deere being Deere, the first 400 and 500 were very well built and refined mid mounts......a better sled than a mid mount Ski Doo, must think logically to understand Deere product development. Evolutionary enginnering verses revolutionary engineering

[SpitfireKing]

I'd love to discuss.... If the darn book would ever arrive Still says its not even in print until April on my wife's account

[400brian]

What I have always gotten a kick out of is that Dick showed us photos, when they were out west testing the prototype, they had a Cat and a Polaris with them, both front engine designs...and they were developing a mid-mount.

It just seemed a bit absurd at the time, and I don't recall Dick giving us a good explanation for the mid-mount route at the time, other than that the industry leader at the time ( Ski Doo ) were building mid-mounts.

But hey, I like my mid-mount!

[Wildfire II]

Hi guys...just a few comments...one reason we had front mounts with us when testing the first proto was for evaluation and comparison against our proto sleds...and they did very well in all snow conditions...there were alot more mid engine sleds back then and few front mounts...maybe we did not like the gas tank between our legs next to our thingies...I remember putting hundreds of miles at our test farm in the dirt riding a Rupp...take a look at the rupps at that time...do they look kinda close...its easy to say why didn't we build a front mount now days...in 70/71 there was more boggie and mid engine sleds than not...who knew how the future would look like...with that said guess what sled i liked best....

[JoeRainville]

Matt,

I was pretty familiar with the history of Deere and Co. due to several good books published on the subject and even referenced in Chapter one. What I did find interesting was the creation of a consumer products division and the decision to built sleds. While I try to understand the choice to go mid-mount due to market conditions a the time, its hard not to think how much farther ahead Deere would have been by following the technology leaders of Cat and Polaris vs. the high volume leader Ski-doo.

Skipping a head a bit, it was very interesting to read how the JDX series was pulled ahead in 73, and how that model year in particular was a pain for the factory to deal with. I knew about several of the anti-vapor lock mod kits and the issues with Salsbury clutches resulting in Mod Kit 140 replacing them with Comet 100-C / 94D set ups.

Good reading so far although I would have liked to see more pic's of the prototypes.

-Joe

[Norton]

I have not finished this book as it came at the peak of the snowmobile season around here.

I have had Wayne Broehl Jr. book "John Deere's Company" since it was released in 1984. That book is mentioned several times in this one. These two books have a attention to detail and filled with technical info. that you would expect from authors with an engineering background. This not meant as a criticism of this book but it was not as much "fun" to read as "Starfire Kids". Another snowmobile history book released this past year.

Looking back is easy but front mount engines were on the way out as Deere was starting in the sled business. I was 18 in 73 and perplex at Deere's choice at the time. I remember a comment Jon Carlson made at Waconia Vintage Days I think. The 295/s (a mid-mount) was the fastest sled in the I-500 but the poorest handling in 1974. I remember too a comment I heard years ago out in Seattle, on a visit. There is the right way to build a plane and then there is Boeing's way. This corporate mindset must have been alive in Horicon and Moline as well. Still they gave us the best mid-mounts ever made. Fun to pick on big corporations...is that OK Matt?

kb

[Matt]

Still they gave us the best mid-mounts ever made. Fun to pick on big corporations...is that OK Matt?

kb

That's probably true, and I never said I though it was a bad decision...I was just curious how they came to that decision. They did sell a TON of sleds in 1973 especially if I'm not mistaken, and when they saw the market was shifting heavily to front-mount, they made the adjustment and had a successful sled by 1976. I'm probably getting ahead of myself though as far as the book goes, as I still haven't finished Chapter 2. I need to stop watching Netflix and read instead.

[WinnipegStPaul9]

I'm about done with the book and I have to admit it's a tough book to sit down and read lots of pages. With Starfire Kids, I couldn't put it down but this book is so much more technical that it should be considered a "History" book. It's good that I love history!! Thank you Ron Leonard and Dick Teal for taking the time to write this book.

DA

[skoalmint]

Ordered mine on Monday, Got it today, Cant wait to read. Gonna tear into it tonite. Brock

[ddub]

Well, I know I live under a rock. But this ranks as a "best kept secret" (at least with me!)

When they become available again, I will be ordering one. Thank you to the authors, books help to preserve the history of the past.

I hope you guys don't mind, I posted a link at vintagesleds.

http://vintagesleds.com/bs/index.php/to ... 250.0.html

[78LF]

I read this book a few months ago. There was a picture of a 295/s with a different seat, I believe they called it a Winnipeg special. Does anyone have any info on these sleds?

[Matt]

http://www.jdsleds.com/racing/race295s/cc295s.html

[kwc]

That old 89 sled is so cool, I got to park my sled next to it at the Horicon show back in 2009. Wow that was a great show!