Early or late model Liquifire 440 a better machine to build?

[NYJDX11]

Looking to build a Liquifire 440. Wondering what pros and cons are associated with the late 70's Kiortiz machines vs. the early 80's Kawasaki machines. I'm interested in your personal experiences and thoughts in reference to known problems (stator, ignition, drive system, cooling system, chassis), overall durability of either machine, effectiveness of cooling systems and parts availability. I'm not overly concerned with the market value of the machine or production numbers. Basically if one series was an overall better series (more durable, faster, better ride) I'd like to build that series. ALL OPINIONS, EXPERIENCES AND THOUGHTS ARE WELCOME!!!

[lwb140]

76-78 hands down easier to work on, make run etc, no comparison in my book, many 80-84s around that have been nearly given up on to make run by respectable savvy sled mechanics.

[harleysportster]

I totally agree with lwb140. I own both a 76 and a 78 Liquifire. The 78 has slightly more suspension than the 76. The 76's seemed to have more stator / cdi problems than the 77/78's. If you decide to try your luck at an 80 and up Liquifire, they do ride nice if you can keep it running.

[Jd sled rider]

I have an 80 liquifire I will sell for what I have into it! New Pistons, new nickasiled jugs crank was redone new gaskets new carb parts suspension gone thru new paint and decals. I will say I HATE this sled!!!!!!!!! All this time and money wasted. I can't make it run it takes somewhere between 75 and 100 pulls to get it running. That being said, I have an 81 with the hsr ignition that will start on 2 pulls, every time! I just bought a 78. And can't wait to tear into it to make it new again. Pick one and run with it. Make it yours and enjoy, most fun on the trail you will have. My opinion thanks Lincoln. If you want the 80, pm me and we can talk money.

[WinnipegStPaul9]

Great question!! For riding I prefer 82-84 LF ( though I ride a Sportfire). To restore they're both a push. Can't say either one is easier and like to do both.

DA

[AirborneX4Special]

Every sled is different. They all have issues, some worse than others, just like every other machine. It's a matter of patience, what you are willing to tolerate, and what you like.

[JDMIKE8100]

I prefer the 1976-77,like the black/silver/yellow colour combination and machine profile.
Reliable and tough,some electric issues but can be solved.Help on this site is excellent.
Comfortable,stable,ride with lots of power.
Wont over heat on a warmer day of riding.Lots of available parts.
Have to be careful with cleated track on ice,suspension a little rough.This machine is heavy.
Good luck with your choice.

[I500]

1977 Liquifire, .....Coolest and toughest sled on the planet hands down.

[JoeRainville]

Love both generations of Liquifire's, but each has strong and weak points. But, I seem to lean toward the 80-84's by my history.

First, a quick run down of the 80's:

Kawi chrome bore's scuff pistons and don't hold oil. Nicasil bores are a huge durability improvement with Wisco Pro-lite's and nic compatible rings. Advancing the ignition timing SLIGHTLY is a huge help with starting and running. A fellow vintage I-500 racer suggested 1/16" advancement from the case seam does the trick, but 1/8" of an inch is too far. Stock, the 80-81's are geared pretty steep. I geared my I-500 sled the same as the 82-84's at 21:39. Much better out of the hole, and helps with the infamous Kawi bog. the 82-84 HSR ignition is a big improvement, but is hard to find.

The 80-84 chassis is pretty tough, the track is very durable. The multi-layered seat is comfortable and effective if you are not over 6 foot tall. Liquid cooling and oil injection are nice. Fox shocks make a world of difference on any Deere, especially if you want to do any vintage racing or long trail rides.

The 76-77 Liquifire's are about the best looking sled Deere ever built. The Kioritz 340 and 440 case reed Liquid's are a great motor, with durable iron bores. The weak spot on that motor is the Presto-lite ignitions, they are terrible. But, a rewound stator and CDI box from Hewtech (http://www.cdibox.com) are usually a huge improvement in idle quality and low end torque. The steel skids don't offer a lot of travel, but are tough. Not real fond of the cleated track, but Chuck found out that a 16" x 121" Cat track from the 80's can be retrofitted. Any 76 Liquifire that has the original 15" full width cleated track will need an update. The 77-78 2/3's riveted cleated track is pretty tough.

The 78's have a bunch of updates, like aluminum suspension, thicker seat, taller gas tank, radiator and bulkhead mounted heat exchanger, new hood and graphic's, etc. Motors had a bit more power, about 47 hp for the 340 and 57 hp for the 440. Ignitons are a week point again, but all around great sleds.

Of the first gen Liquifire, the 78 Cross Country is totally my favorite. Rubber track and longer travel suspension's really round out the updates for 78.

I hope this helps,
-Joe Rainville

[harleysportster]

Here is the best of both generations of the Liquifires. My clone version of a '78 Cross Country. The skid is from a 1980 liquifre with a Arctic Cat all-rubber track. I have several hundred miles on it since the conversion with no problems.

[400brian]

I remember back in 2009 I believe, we were in St Germain for the RWTC. We had been over to the 19th Hole for supper, and Troy and I were in the parking lot when Rainville drove in, whining about not being able to find a parking spot. I was getting ready to run into town for gas, and so I had to move my trailer, and load up JDJR and the Water's Boys fuel cans before I could leave.

When I returned, they were unloading their sleds, and Troy and I took turns riding them around the parking lot at around 11:30 pm. We rode Joe's 84 LF, the Sprintfire, and the 78 CC. On that brief test, Troy and I both concluded that the 78 CC was hands down our favorite.

We both purchased 78s soon after. Troy has been riding his, mine is still in development. If you have long legs, you may appreciate the larger frame machine as we did.

[sledhead16]

I have zero experience with the 70s Liquifires, I did build though from the ground up an 80 Liquifire and kept it in riding condition, most ornery sled I have ever dealt with as far as tuning and it just having its own personality, but when it does run right on a colder day, she hauls the mail for sure!!!! 80mph on the gps. I've spent to much time with her to abandon her now!

[Packers29]

^ What he said...... It is so needy as a sled it seems everything has to be tuned perfectly.

[a572mike]

^ What he said...... It is so needy as a sled it seems everything has to be tuned perfectly.

+!

I've learned a few tricks over the years and also learned a lot from this site. Two things that helped mine were making sure that the timing is right as stated above, and making sure that clamps between the airbox and the carbs are tight (no brainer).

[JDCornFlakes]

From lots of relationship experience ....
The 1980-81's are like dating relationship with a moody bitchy parnicky smoking hot girlfriend. If things are not setup just right she will not be pleased and will not want to get going.
Then you spend lots of money on things trying to make her happy. You spend hours and hours alone with her trying to make her happy to just perform satisfactorily just a little bit .
But when you finally get her to put out for you and she is performing well and your flying at 85mph across that lake.
You kinda forget about all the headache and grief she put you through for that moment.

The 78 is better one to go steady with.

Dave