St. Hilaire Vintage run

[jep_800]

Myself and Gumbo Farmer went on a vintage run from St. Hilaire, MN to Red Lake Falls and back yesterday afternoon. Being we were the only two John Deere sleds at the event, we stuck together (this is Arctic Cat country being only a few miles from Thief River Falls). He had his 83 Sportfire, and I had my 800. It was a little on the warm side, but the wind was fairly strong out of the south. The wind chill got the "actual" feel temperature to 13 degrees. The 800, and Maynard's Sportfire ran great on the way down to Red Lake Falls. No issues.

When we went out to start the trek back, the 800 fired up on the first pull and was running in top form. We hit the trail out of Red Lake Falls, which is an old railroad bed until it hits the County road ditch. Made the turn to head north on Hwy 32, and things began to go wrong. I noticed that some of the machines that passed me (and my own sled) did not smell the same as earlier. We started dropping like flies. One of the older guys who has been doing this for years said that when we headed north, we were traveling almost the same speed as the wind. These motors were not getting any air movement. My 800 overheated and I began running on one cylinder. Stopped the machine and it died. Pulled the plugs and even though they appeared rich on the way down, they were now looking hot and a bit lean on the way back. Number 1 looked better than number 2. Our spirits which were high just an hour earlier really sank, as I realized that I now have to determine what went wrong, and how extensive the damage is. First will be to see if I still have the ignition in tact. Even though I had my shield completely insulated, and lines wrapped, it is possible that it was also experiencing vapor lock, but that would be hopeful. I'm going to take the pipe and header off so I can inspect the cylinder walls and pistons, and try to peak at the tops.

After loading both of my sleds up with help from Maynard, I was pretty dejected. One of the vintage sled club leaders in St. Hilaire (Sno Jet rider), did give me something positive to think about. "Nothing is permanent", he said. These things can be rebuilt if that's what it takes.

jep_800

[gumbofarmer]

We had a great time, and Jason winning this trophy for best restored will take the edge off a little!!!!!

[JDXspec]

I guess I could have almost made it as I was at the seven clans for the race. But I only had my zr440 with me. Matt was the only jd in the race in the vintage class

[gumbofarmer]

I overheard some guys in the bar after the show talking about a John Deere in the race. They said it was really moving!!!!!!!

[Jd sled rider]

Don't think about what it costs to rebuild, you had fun the first part of the ride. It is great to see you representing the bogies! I had just 70 miles on my liquifire, and got to tear it down this past week, like my wife said your not a drunk and don't do drugs, might as well have one bad habit! I got mine fixed for RWTC if your coming you have time too. Later Lincoln.

[jep_800]

Yep, I thought about it for a while, and now I have an opportunity to do a few other things that I didn't get to before. So, I hope to have it running the same or better than before. Couple of guys commented to me about how nice it ran before I had trouble, which is always nice to hear. Tis the fun, and the misery with vintage sleds. I'll have it on the trails again in the future.

jep_800

[JDT]

Congrats on winning that nice trophy Jason.

[WinnipegStPaul9]

Great trophy Jason, you should have won one just for taking care of Maynard!! See you soon Maynard?

DA

[jep_800]

Thanks Don & Todd.

It's always fun to meet some of the faithful to this website and do a little riding.

Jason

[Norton]

Jason,
Great accomplishment in its own right! Even greater when it happens in the middle of home turf of the Cat!

kb

[400brian]

Jason, you are running a fan cooled engine, wind shouldn't have that much effect. What was the actual temp? and was it warmer on the way back?

Take a look through the ports, and check your compression. I will be surprised if you have damage, unless I am not getting all the information here. Are you running premium fuel?

I have run my X8 on days when it was so warm that it was sneezing back through the carb ( before I re-did the heat shield ). Had to lean the carb just to make it run. In those cases you have to remember to richen it back up for cold temps, or you may burn it down.

I suppose it is possible that your under-hood temps may have been high enough to cause issues. Let us know what you find.

[HoosierDeereMan]

Your day may not have ended the way you wanted but think about all the fun you were having up that point. Priceless!

I agree with Brian's comments. You stated it was warm out and you combine that with a vintage ride and you have a good recipe for lots of under hood heat. I don't mean any disrespect about the vintage rides. They are a great time and always a great group of snowmobile enthusists. They do a awesome job of promoting the sport. But in most cases what happens is your speed is very slow. You are mostly running in the low to mid range and constantly stopping and regrouping. The air cooled engine is getting cool air but you are working it pretty hard as you don't have the RPM's up and the secondary hasn't fully shifted. Add in idle time for stopping and regrouping, belt heat, muffler heat, and it causes lots of under hood heat. Liquid cooled engines aren't as bad as they regulate the engine temp better than air cooled. I've seen guys take off and leave the pack before running pretty hard. I thought what a bunch of hilljacks. Then you talk with them later and find out they were having overheating issues and pig rich carbs and had to get out and run to cool them down.

Troy

[jep_800]

Troy, Brian,

The high temp that day got to 28 degrees in St. Hilaire. It may have stretched to 30, as it seemed plenty warm when we left Red Lake Falls. As I mentioned earlier, I think there were about 8 sleds dead in the ditch on the way back. Not sure what everyones trouble was, but many guys said that they ran hot back to St. Hilaire. Only one had trouble on the way down, but I think that was a clutch issue or something. I think my average speed was about 38-42 mph. I do remember getting behind an El Tigre that seemed to back off quite a bit. I should have gone around him, but my ass end danced all over in the ditch bottom, which I think is fairly normal for this bogie machine, and I finally got used to running like that so I tried not to let is slow me down. I got it over 55 mph on the railroad grade into and out of Red Lake Falls. Would have been faster, but I was catching up to the guy ahead of me. Ditches were rougher on the way back, so maybe my speed dropped further. It was getting some pretty good heat under the hood as I could feel it in my left boot. I suspected that number 2 went down when it overheated. Is it possible that a ring got snagged, or something caused number 2 to heat up more than number 1?? A bit baffled by it.

If Maynard reads this, I'd like him to explain how his Sportfire was operating, and recount how his machine acted on the two-way trip. Maybe he remembers something I don't. He let me lead on the way back, so he pulled over when my machine died to help out. Thanks for investigating my issues.

(Also, to answer Brian's earlier question, I run 91 octane, no ethanol, Klotz oil closer to 40:1 just to make sure I don't have too little oil. Only other oil I have used is Amsoil).

Jason

[HoosierDeereMan]

Did you find aluminum stuck to the plug electrode? You can pull each plug and roll the engine over until each piston is close to top dead center and look in the plug holes with a flashlight. If you see a crater in the middle of the piston you melted a piston. As far as a snagged ring, you will have to pull the "Y" pipe and look at the rings through the exhaust ports. Theoretically the fan side #1 cylinder should always run cooler as it's getting the fresh cold air first. The second cylinder is getting warm air from #1. In dual carb air cooled engines Deere always staggered the jet sizes so the 2nd cylinder got more fuel for added cooling. Running a single Walbro you have to find the happy medium for the fuel mixture on both cylinders. That's why Brian was talking about adjusting the thumb screw to lean it out alittle.

Troy

[sledhead16]

Well look her over and let us know what's up. I like to keep the air moving in the fanners and throttle burp them. Lots of stuff can heat up under those hoods.