78 Liquifire rebuild!

[Cdnturboz]

I echo your guy's comments - Facebook groups seem to have so much drama or the fact that the information just gets lost.

[400brian]

A number of years ago I bought a box of 6205 bearings off ebay for a good price. I have been rebuilding my aluminum center idlers for getting close to 20 years now. However, the sleds I had put those particular bearings in had not gotten much use. A friend peer pressured / bullied me into doing a set for his Dator, then after a seasons use complained that the bearings were already crunchy.

That was all the data I needed to throw the box under the bench. Since then, I have been using NTN bearings sourced from Wahl Racing, with good results so far. If you price these bearings, you will find a huge range in prices, and you really can't tell what you are getting by looking at them.

Two of the wheels sitting on the axle of the CC clone suspension I am building were originally for the 78 suspension that went into the Wife's Cyclone a few years ago. I had put the ebay bearings in those, so I rebuilt a different pair to go under the Cyclone. Tonight I finally bit the bullet and disassembled the first wheel with the trash bearing. They come apart with much less effort, but I hate having to do things twice.

[High Top]

I purposely deleted my Facebook account years ago, as I just didn’t have the energy or passion to view it every day and see what folks are saying…. I guess if it’s not my family or inner circle of friends I just don’t care all that much.

So I agree, I prefer this site much more, as I like to review past threads to find new information or review what I once knew. I love the content and like to see what guys are doing and maybe even help with an issue I’ve already experienced. Restoration topics are probably my favorite. Next would be RWTC discussions, and the Tech Help threads. Always learning something.

JP

I’m of the same mindset. I had FB at one time and then deleted it. I may at some point get one again but seem to be surviving without it just fine. I’ve never really been a forum contributor either but this one I’ve jumped into and added my thoughts. I like the JD sleds layout and there is a TON of GREAT information on here. Very well organized and regulated.

[400brian]

Finished up the first of two rear idlers I needed to do for the 78 CC clone. Swapping out bearings that I have since learned were not up to the task. When I started re-assembly a week ago, I found the rivets I had on hand were not to my liking.

I received my order from Wicks Aircraft Supply on Monday after ordering them the previous Wed night. The rivets I use are aircraft grade, dome head, and dead soft. 3/16 dia x 1/2 long.

New rivets make a huge difference! Dead soft rivets harden over time, and the ones I had were 10+ years old. The fresh ones set much easier, you could hear the difference in the hammer blow. Three or four strikes and they are set.
A quick polish brought the previously polished centers back around, good to go.

[nick80lf]

Nice work. For me, bearing quality is directly related to difficulty of replacement. I will admit to using the Shenzhen specials in the plastic wheels with snap rings. But a wheel like this which is not so easy to replace would get the good stuff.

[400brian]

I guess this is what I am going to go with on my rear arm. It places the idlers a bit higher than the 80 LF idlers, but considerably lower than the placement of the original CC shaft that was mounted separately in the tunnel.

Just needs a few beads of weld to lock it in place.

[400brian]

Decided to get the secondary clean and freshened up. Took it apart Christmas night ( decompressing a bit ). My intention was to soda blast the aluminum hub and helix, but my soda blasting media had turned into a solid. I have a coffee can of chunkage in the oven hoping a can grind it back into a powder. I only need a very small amount for this job. If it doesn't work I'll have to satisfied with a good wire brushing.

The sheaves show no obvious wear, just the typical corrosion where the belt sits. The sheaves have been sanded smooth, and I think I will paint the outside one silver to give it a fresh look.

The helix has been sanded smooth and polished, not quite to chrome standards, but a lot better than the gray fur it was before.

I also cleaned up the first of the 4 aux idlers. The old bearing is out and it is ready for reassembly.

[400brian]

It turned out there was enough soda left in the gun to clean the secondary hub up! So I am a step closer to reassembling the secondary.

I had two new bearings on hand, so they have been installed into the auxiliary idler wheels. The second set of wheels have been cleaned up and are waiting for another pair of new bearings to arrive.

I ran into some issues that gave rise to a number of questions when I tore this suspension down, and it took a conference with Tom Rehberg to sort it out. I was seeing a mixture of shaft and bearing IDs. Apparently it is not uncommon to find idlers with 5/8" IDs, and others with 17 mm. Being as I had some shafts that needed replacing, I started looking for some 17 mm steel shaft, only to find it was not common, and expensive when you did find it.
Tom assured me I could get bearings with a 5/8" ID, and go with commonly available 5/8" shaft. He was correct, Wahl Racing carries NTN bearing 6203LLU/15.875 , which has a diameter of 40mm x 12mm wide x an ID of 15.875mm ( which is 5/8").

That is the bearing that is installed in the wheels here, and the new 5/8" axles were cut, drilled, and tapped almost a year ago.

[400brian]

Small bits of progress. The plastic buttons have been installed in the secondary hub, and the last of the auxiliary idlers have been cleaned and the new bearings installed.

As a side note; these aluminum center idlers were only used on the 78 Cross Country and Dator suspensions. As such, they are unobtainium at this point. Most likely the only way a guy can obtain these is to know somebody, I doubt you will see these pop up on ebay. There are more modern options, but if you want the original look, a 78 CC suspension has to have the aluminum center rear, center, and auxiliary idler wheels.

Recently I have been looking at the forward arm springs and how they attach to the plastic spools on the front shaft. Brock Weber reproduces the white CC spools, and I was trying to decide how I was going to install the parts. The original front shaft located the spools with roll pins through the shaft, but the wear marks on the aluminum shaft didn't match well with where the spring arms were falling. I wondered if I had the spools installed backwards, as the spool part is offset from the hub section.

I put the question out to my circle of knowledgeable collectors. I thought this a pretty simple question, but shortly after sending the text out, Brock called me and we had a quick but illuminating discussion. I had the spools installed with the extended side of the flanges pointed out, and Brock confirmed that this was correct, but what I was missing was that the springs I had were not OEM CC springs, but Trailfire or late LF.

The 78 CC suspension was the prototype for the Trailfire and Liqufire suspensions that came later. One of the things they learned was that the CC springs were prone to breakage. The later springs were wound with a gap between the coils, where the CC springs had been wound with the coils tight together. Apparently under hard use the springs would bind and this led to failure. So, Brock pointed out that on the CC suspension the extended side of the spool hub fit tight to the tab on the rail, with the roll pin holding there. With the later springs installed, the spools need to be some distance inboard. I had intended to cut spacers from tube to locate the spools, but Brock advised that they would be fine left floating like the ones on the 80+ LF were.

Tom Rehberg later concurred with all this, he opined that original CC springs are hard to find as they pretty much all broke. I have a set of NOS rear CC springs, but some time ago Brock had advised that I not run them as the newer design was superior. All good to know.

It looks like I will be disassembling the parts and getting the paint freshened up before final assembly can commence.

[400brian]

The secondary sheaves were quite dull after the grime was cleaned off, so they got a coat of Argent Silver, which is Case/IH wheel color ( what I have on hand ). I use this on Kioritz engine tin as well. As soon as the paint dries, final assembly can begin.

[400brian]

Assembled the secondary clutch tonight.

The entire process was:
Disassemble and clean
Soda blast the moveable aluminum hub
Sand and paint the sheaves
Install new plastic buttons
Sand and polish exterior and ramps on the helix
Reassemble hub to sheave with new stainless nyloc nuts
Install new spring
Bolt helix to the towers per book specs

Doesn't look like factory new, but the sled is going to be a rider, so I think I can live with it.

[400brian]

Small progress. The rear arm has had some welding done, and is now sporting fresh paint.

The spacers on the idler shaft have some deep grooves worn into them, so they need to be replaced. I have a piece of new tube sitting in the vice, ready for new spacers to be cut from it.

Bit by bit the suspension will get fresh paint before it gets installed into the tunnel.

[nick80lf]

Looks good Brian.

[Mark633CSi]

That looks great!!

[400brian]

Today I made new spacers for the rear idler shaft. The originals had grooves worn most of the way through them. I made these out of 3/4" OD x 5/8" ID chrome moly steel tube. This fits the 5/8" shaft I am using much better than the original spacers. These spacers stay out of the bearing seal.

The process was nothing fancy, clamped the tube in the vise, cut the tube with a hacksaw, then trued the piece and brought it to final length with the bench top belt sander. Ready for painting.