1977 440 Liquifire Problem

Sliquifire · Post by **Sliquifire** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:59 pm

My '77 Liquifire blew a crank seal a couple of years ago. Since then it has been rebuilt with JD seals, gaskets, pistons and rings. When this motor blew I could tell something was wrong, it wouldnt idle and always wanted the choke on to run but I was still able to get 65mph out of her on the gun. Now that it's rebuilt it starts and idles like a champ, it does have some low to midrange capeability but my top end is now only 50mph. It does not do any backfiring but when I pull the plugs it looks like the break side plug is being used, but barely (the throttle side plug looks normal). I've read all the FAQ's on this site and other topics and sollutions relating to this type of problem with other 76-78 Liquifires but mine again does not backfire and does have some power to it so I keep thinking I'm just one small step away from having this sled run like it should! I'm not a mechanic, actually some times I think tools have a vendetta against me, so I don't have a timing Light or an Ohm meter to do the checks on the electronics that have been sugested in other topic issues. Since I'm limited in ability and tools, what I'm looking for is an educated guess on what to look at first. Is it the stator, CDI, Coils, spark plug cap & wires, clutching?......any help would definitely be appreciated! this sled's motor is a Kioritz -KEC 440/23LC, and is set to stock condition.

Sliquifire · Post by **Sliquifire** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:48 pm

I'm using NGK BR10ES plugs which I believe are the correct ones to be using but, the spark plug chart on this site calls for NGK BUE or BUEW. I'm not familiar with this type of NGK plug are you?

JDXspec · Post by **JDXspec** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:53 pm

I think the BUE is a surface gap. I run B9ES or BR9ES

Sliquifire · Post by **Sliquifire** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:20 pm

I'm assuming ebay is the best place to try and find a CDI Box for a 77 Liquifire. Does anyone have other sources that they've had luck with?

JDXspec · Post by **JDXspec** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:18 pm

round or square plugs on the cdi box? DKtrader has had the rd plug very resonable lately on ebay.

JDXspec · Post by **JDXspec** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:01 pm

Heres the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-AS...5QQcmdZViewItem

Or buy it now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-AS...5QQcmdZViewItem

Sliquifire · Post by **Sliquifire** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:38 pm

I checked and it looks like the CDI box on my sled has the rectangular "snap together" ends. It has a black plastic cover with 'Snow Pro" printed on it. I attached a photo to this reply for better identification of it. Does anyone have a good source for this type of CDI Box?

Also if you look close at the photo you'll see a ground wire that has one end that's not connected to anything. The other end is attached to a nut located on the engine just above the carbs. The ground wire is relatively short and I don't see any place to attach it to on the frame. It looks like it wants to attach to a nut near the recoil? Any suggestions on where it should go?

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:06 pm

Sliquifire,
[/QUOTE]Now that it's rebuilt it starts and idles like a champ, it does have some low to midrange capeability but my top end is now only 50mph. [quote]
What is the RPM range of the engine at 50 mph.

I used to have a Sno-Pro type cdi box. It crapped out on me and I installed a Hewtech cdi before DK Trader started putting the OEM type up on ebay. Look at this picture and you will see that the ground wire mounts to the top mounting bolt.
http://home.comcast.net/~psshd/pressuretest/presuretest1.JPG
I would not buy another Sno-Stuff cdi, either buy the later JD round style plug and splice the wires to the original rectangle connector or buy the Hewtech.
Before condeming the cdi box, learn how to use a ohm meter or have someone do it for you. You must rule out a bad stator. Your condition is similiar to bad high speed windings. If you can get a ohm meter, we can help you use it.
Good Luck.

Sliquifire · Post by **Sliquifire** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:13 pm

Thanks for everyones input, I appreciate your help!

Answering your question on my top end RPM, I was going 52 on a smooth surfaced lake according to a radar gun last weekend and my tach was reading around 5700 RPMs. My motor still sounded smooth but, kind of like it was teeter tottering to find more power. It made you want to feather the throttle to get more out of it but, again it was definitely not able to find the higher RPMS needed to get to that high power grove it should have! On another note - this sled, as it is, is still trail rideable and has enough power to ride up small steep hils on the trail. (I weigh about 200lbs)

One fix I tried last year with this sites recomendation was switching the carbs to see if the plug firing problem followed the carb and it didn't. When I pulled the clutch side plug it still looks like its barely being used.

The current Snow Pro CDI box on my sled is the one that was on it when I purchased it. I prefer using the higher quality parts when they're available and affordable. Do you know where can I find pricing on a Hewtech CDI Box for a 77 Liquifire? Is it easy to find the correct CDI Box?

I"ll call around and see if I can find someone with an ohm meter. It sounds like you can help more If I can get some numbers!

JDXspec · Post by **JDXspec** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:24 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they in 77 have a serial # break between the rectangular plug and the round plug?

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:42 pm

Rich,
The Snow-Pro cdi box that I bought years ago had a adapter for the round plug setup. I threw it away because the box was wired with the rectangle plug.
Here is Hewtech's link.
http://www.hewtechelectronics.com/sledparts/kohler.htm
Check out the cdi's on ebay while they are available.
The parts book lists the cdi change-over at 70,001-

Sliquifire · Post by **Sliquifire** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:34 am

OK, you guys lost me. I'm trying to keep up! First, should I be looking for a CDI Box with the rectangular ends or will the round end type work if I can find someone to splice it? From what I can see it looks like the rectangular conection is stock on my sled. It's serial # is 070509M. I'm also seeing an original CDI box on ebay with a rectangular end, part # AM 53644, that is being listed for 76-78 Cyclones & Liquifires. Maybe this is the one to try and grab???

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Rich,
I over looked the change over you pointed out, I didn't read the small print in the parts book. That sure does clear things up.

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:00 pm

If you are looking at this:
Item number: 200075619322
It is not a genuine JD part even tho it has the jd AM part number on it. It is aftermarket.

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:34 pm

this is a simple question i want to ask... if you hold the throttle to max and push on thottle cable more does it speed up.. it may just simply be a throttle cable not adjusted correctly.