Help and Info for a CCW KEC-340/5 engine

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:40 pm

You can try to hold the flywheel from turning by engaging the teeth on the ring gear in some way.
But, an impact wrench is the tool of choice to remove nuts on shafts, such as on flywheels and alternators. Zip, and it is off.
A steering wheel type puller then is used to pull off the flywheel.

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:22 pm

Well I managed to fashion something to hold the flywheel and got the nut off, but the flywheel is not budging. I bought 3 M6 bolts and connected the steering wheel puller to the flywheel. The first time, the washers I put on the M6 bolts basically folded in half and pulled through the puller. I tried with 2 washers and the same thing. Then I put 4 on, this time it really started to tighten up (I was using an electric impact wrench). I stopped and tapped around the flywheel with a hammer to try and loosen things up, then tightened the puller some more. I kept doing this until one of the M6 bolts sheered off. Luckily I was able to get the broken bolt out of the flywheel.
The threads on the center bolt hole on the puller are pretty much done so I'm going to buy another puller and try to find some better quality M6 bolts and try again. I just don't want to damage anything on the motor. Any tips on getting this thing off?
If I can't get it off, I'm going to try cleaning the points again through the flywheel windows But I'd really like to get the flywheel off so I can inspect everything else and remove the points so I can clean them better.

Thanks for all the help!

Matt

Post by **Matt** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:50 pm

Try using some heat on it, let cool, and re-heat a couple times. What grade were the washers and bolts?

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:22 pm

I'm not sure what grade they are, I can't imagine they're very high though.
I'll get out the blow torch tomorrow and see if some heat will losen things up.
Thanks for the idea!
Matt

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:03 am

I use the fire wrench all the time here on the farm to expand things enough to get them apart ( oxy/ acectylene ) or cut bearings off shafts ect.
When you say blow torch, I'm not sure what you are referring to. Obviously care needs to be taken here. It would be easy to feed flame inside the flywheel and damage the primary and lighting coils, and take the temper out of the advance springs directly behind the flywheel.. I'd consider packing the inspection holes with something non-flamable. I'd probably use fiberglass insulation, but then you'll really need to get the flywheel off then to get the fibers out.

Get the puller on and torqued up, heat the center of the wheel quickly, and give the puller a moderate rap on the main bolt head. We're not trying to damage the end of the crankshaft here, so don't go nuts. This is a tapered fit, it's either on or off, it may
jump a bit when it pops off.

The last one I pulled off wasn't hardly tight, I used the puller, but it came right off.

I would refrain from using the impact wrench on the puller. I want to be able to feel how tight I am winding up the puller. A steering wheel puller generally isn't all that robust, and if you have one of pacific rim manufacture, you likely don't have much. Use an apropriate tool, a socket on a short to medium length breaker bar should suffice, and you shouldn't have to pull your guts out on it, or you will break something. Using the impact wrench on the puller will likely strip the threads, too violent.

In my opinion, a good mechanic is the guy who can tear apart vintage parts without destroying them.

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:16 pm

I bought a new, better quality, puller and some higher grade bolts and heated up the fly wheel with a pen torch so I could get the heat just where I wanted and not heat up the coils or advance springs. I tightened up the puller and she popped off.

I filed the points that aren't working with a fine diamond coated file, then blew them of with compressed air and wiped them down with a foam q-tip and rubbing alcohol. I also visually inspected the ignition coil, condenser, and interconnecting wires, everything looked good. I couldn't really measure the resistance of anything because all the connections are soldered together. I also adjusted the points gap to .014 (the gap was a little small).
I put everything back together, still no spark. I cleaned the points again, through the flywheel window, no spark. I cleaned and filed the points once more and still nothing.

At this point I'm not sure what I should do, maybe de-solder the end of the coil and check the resistance of it to make sure there isn't a short or an open and at the same time replace the points and condenser?
What do you guys think??

If I do order new points and condensor should I get them through rec leisure?

Which rec leisure part #'s should I get? Would these be them?
Points: 01-139-3
Condenser: 01-140-4 or 01-140-7 ??
Fan belt: 807

Thanks again for all the help!

Matt

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:49 pm

I suspect you may have a bad primary coil, or an open condenser. It is a hassel that you can't change the condensers without unsoldering them. I put new points in my 340/5 last winter, and I left the condensers alone for that reason. You could test the points to confirm they are grounding, carefully examine the wires for breaks, and of course check the coil condition.

The only shop manual I have is for '72 sleds. In it they are testing the coils on the bench off the engine, so the points would be closed. Connecting an ohm meter to the red wire and grounding to the stator, should indicate no resistance if the points are good. Perform test connected to black wire as well, clean points to get satisfactory flow.

Next, insert a piece of cardboard between contacts, and repeat test. A '72 kokusan ignition was to have 1.19 ohms +/- 10%

The next problem is I'm not sure where you can get a replacement coil. Central Snowmobile in Green Bay doesn't list them, nor does Manufacturer's Supply.
Anyone know of a replacement coil source?

Hope this helps

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:25 pm

I pulled off the flywheel again today and de-soldered the condenser (the one attached to the red wire, the one that isn't working). I removed the points and condenser and tested the points to make sure I was getting 0 Ohms in the closed position and infinity in the open, which I was. I also tested the coil, with nothing else attached to it and got a reading of 1.6 Ohms. To compare I tested the other coil (the one I know is working) and got the exact same reading. While taking the readings I shook the leads around and tapped the coil to make sure there where no loose connections. So I'm pretty sure the coil is good. I also tested the wire that goes from the points to the condenser and from the condenser to the outside of the motor, both were a solid 0 Ohms. That really only leaves the condenser as the problem, but I'm also going to replace the points, just in case.

Could someone help me come up with a shopping list for the parts I need?
I need a fan belt, points, and condenser.
I've looked at a number of different suppliers and they are all confusing they will show 2 or more part #'s for the same engine and I want to make sure I get the correct parts. On my last post I listed what I thought the part #'s would be from rec leisure, actually I think the points would be 01-139-5. Here is a link to their parts catalog
But if anyone knows the part #'s from another supplier I'll order it through them, it doesn't matter to me, as long as the prices are reasonable and they ship to Canada.
I also looked for someone who sold the ignition coil, there are some places that sell the external one but not the internal one. I guess if something goes wrong with my coil I'll have to get it re-wound.

Thanks!!

Matt

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:15 pm

As discused earlier, the kec340/5 was used in the '74 400 and the '74 jdx4 special. Dennis Kirk has a part# listing @ http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/common/Front...TKSM4VMDK0NKIV0
points = 20-235
condenser=20-236

Manufacture Supply has a listing for the fan belt @ http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/index.html?id=WkH5Tciu
09-819-1.... 9.5mmx700mm
09-819....9.5mmx650mm
You need to measure the fan belt around the outside circumforance to get a rough idea of the size.

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:13 am

I was looking on the Dennis Kirk page and the part numbers for the '74 400 and jdx4 special are different. Actually there aren't even any points listed for the jdx4 special. But if I order the parts for the 400, which are the ones you have listed in the last post, those should be the correct parts for my engine?

Thanks!

Matt

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:22 pm

Alright, I got my parts in on Friday and was working on the motor last night, unfortunately the points I got weren't the right size, so with the points out of the engine I took some 600 then 1200 grit sandpaper to them until they were as smooth and shiny as glass. I installed the points and new condenser and put enough of the engine togther to test for spark and I finally got some! Both plugs are now putting out big blue sparks.

A couple questions:
When I'm putting the engine back together does there have to be any sealant or gasket around the fan/flywheel shroud (not sure it thats what it's called) or around the recoil housing? it almost looks like there was some sort of gasket or sealant there before.
Should I re-install the metal cover that goes over the engine? I would think it would cool better without it.
The stock air cleaner will not fit on the engine because of its placement, any ideas on what I could use or how I could make my own?

Hopefully once the engine is back together it'll start up

Thankyou for all your help!!

Matt

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:31 pm

Great to here you have the spark issue solved. Sorry about the incorrect information for the points. No sealant is required between the fan/recoil housing and the crankcase. For proper cooling, you must install the metal shrouding around the top of the cylinders. There are aftermarket air filters available for the engine, but you may have to rejet the carb once installed.

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:19 pm

No problem, it's not your fault.
I got the engine together last night and tried to start it, but it wouldn't fire up. So I got some Quick Start stuff and sprayed it into the carb. This time it fired once and then died. So I sprayed a bit more in then a soon as I pulled the cord, and it fired once, I kept spraying more into the carb which kept the engine running. As the engine was running off the quick start I tried opening the throttle to try and get the engine to start running without the quick start but as soon as I stopped spraying the engine died.
So I guess I need to take the carb apart and try cleaning it and if I find I need to replace some parts I'll have to start looking for a Tillitson or Walbro carb.

Matt

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:03 pm

Stop using the starter fluid. It washes off any oil that is clinging to the cylinder walls and causes premature wear in a 2 stroke engine. Spray premix gas using a standard household spray bottle set to fine mist instead. The carb sounds like it is gummed up.