snowmobile trivia

Liquifire 4/6 · Post by **Liquifire 4/6** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:25 am

Here's a question to which I do not know the answer, but sure would like to. Back in the seventies, some sled mag (maybe, it was Snow Goeror Snow Week?) ran a regular Q&A column called "Ask Pappy". He had accurate and often humorous answers for almost everything snowmobile related. Years ago, I purchased a book of his compilations called "The Collected Works of Pappy". The introduction chapter was written by C.J. Ramstead, yet nowhere in the book does it give any good hints as to pappys real identity. I once thought that CJ himself was pappy, but after rereading the book last week, I've sorta come to the conclusion that pappy must be some friend of CJ's. Or maybe it was actually CJ's alter ego? But something about the timelines just don't add up based on pappy's supposed age (in the intro,CJ reffered to him as an old timer and CJ would have been quite young at the time). So who is this mysterious snowmobile guru who called himself pappy?

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:51 am

Hey Guys,

Rich, I had to correct my post, as I didn't make myself clear. You can correct me anytime, since you've probably forgot more than I have learned about Deere sleds. You are a valued and apprieciated technial resource on this board.

RP: I have agreed with you when your correct on something, and even posted to that fact. But you cop an attitude when the facts don't agree with your opinion. Be big enough to learn from others. I have learned alot about ignitions from Harley, clutching and jetting from Rich, racing from ETD, Dators from Chuck, I-500's from Don and Jon, clutching from Dick Teal, IFS LF proto's from Ed Kruel, etc!

Just because I am Matt's "Honory Technical Editor" does not mean that I know everything about Deere sleds, especially with the factory guys joining us. Heck, I was 14 when Deere stopped building sleds. But arguing an inaccurate point is worthless, vs. conceding to the documented facts. I get corrected once in a while, so what. I prefer to take it as an opportunity to learn something new, not to take it as a personal attack.

-Joseph D. Rainville <_<
Caledonia, NY

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:57 am

...and now back to our regularly scheduled program:

Name all the track drive lug pitches Deere used from 73-84: (Hit, there were three!)

This one should be easy: Name the four brands of engines Deere used in the sled line up:

What drive clutch did Deere help develope that later became a defacto industry standard? Bonus: First Deere to use it...

What driven clutch architecture did Deere develope that was soon copied by all the rest of the OEM's? Bonus: What year did it come out?

Later Liquidator!
-Rainville

B)

07_Z570 · Post by **07_Z570** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:00 pm

I believe John Deere Came out with the 102C Style Clutch.

sledcollector · Post by **sledcollector** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:06 pm

Clutch TR800 1982 LIQUIFIRE
ENGINES,KOHLER, CCW, KORWITZ(not sure on spelling),KAWASKI
Rick

Liquifire 4/6 · Post by **Liquifire 4/6** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:04 pm

The 102C was a considerable refinement and improvement over the previous 100C and 101C models, both of which were used by Deere starting around 74 on all JD models, cept for the 300. Other manufacturers also used the Comets as early as 74...maybe even sooner. I'm not sure how much Deere had to do with the development of the Comets, but no doubt they probably played a large role. I'd sure be interested in hearing more about the JD/Comet connection.

The TR-800 Deere Clutch showed up on the 1982 Liquifire. This was an incredible performing clutch.....though it really fell short in the durability department. Too bad Deere went out of sleds before they worked out those issues. It such a sweet shifting clutch that it would probably still be the hallmark had they developed it just a little further. Interestingly, the TR-800 used a mix of Comet technology (torque towers) and Arctic Cat hex clutch components (the shift ramps from a Cat would actually fit right into a TR-800) while the spyder buttons from a Comet 102C were identical to those used in the TR.

I finally had a chance to work on a Ski Doo TRA clutch last winter and it was my first close up look at one. I was amazed to see that there are some real similarities between it and a TR-800. Of course, there are no parts that are the same......but some of the concepts are very much the same. Not saying Bombardier copied it directly, but someone in Valcourt musta sat for hours staring at a TR-800 during the design stage of their TRA...even deciding to use the letters "TR" in their version. And that TRA is a pretty decent clutch too.

The driven clutch architecture copied by others must be the reverse design secondary?

Post by **JRC ETD** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:33 pm

Pappy was CJ..........Promise JRC.. and have you ever heard 5 women trying to divide the cost of lunch???????????????????????????????????

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:44 pm

deere 100 series clutch made by comet was an inovation not quickly caught on by others.

Joe your previous comments and posts are one of the few that are argued in an adult manner and if for some reason my memory(yes im getting old) is proved wrong i go check things at boneyards, old sled dealers i know personnaly etc. Note next time i go near a tractor boneyard ill check the decal.

there have been arguements in the past where I was right and a number of you guys jumped in on agreeing with him not once did i see you guys post that you were wrong nor did i get an apology.

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:36 pm

Deere engineer Dick Teal had come from Salsbury.

I believe he mentioned holding some patents on the 102C. He said that Comet needed some help.
There may have been others at Deere involved, I don't know for sure.

Horicon Joe · Post by **Horicon Joe** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:40 pm

Ms Prime ..... I don't believe I have ever heard Joe Rainville argue in a childish manor on this web site. In fact it always seems to be in a professional manor that he brings across his information. On the other hand mam ..... I have seen you do just that time and time again. Maybe if you used phrases like "I believe" or "correct me if I am wrong" or " I am not certain but" more often you would not sound so insulting. Instead you say things like "he is wrong" or "that is not correct" or just plane give out bad information that you refuse to back up when called on it.

I agree that bone yard research is NOT evidence of anything. Time and time again after meeting or talking to members on this sight the girl from Canada seems to comes up in conversation and it usually is not ...................................................... Delete ........
..........................................Delete ...................................

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:56 pm

Rich "him" was a guy about 2 yrs ago that argued that the pto jet should be leaner than the mag get which made no sense what soever. i stated repeatedly that the mag takes a smaller jet than the pto side on dual carb engines and people here argued against that for some unknown reason.

Yes i know all about people continualy insulting/bashing/etc behind my back usually to boost their low self esteem up.

bob15 · Post by **bob15** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:29 pm

Rod, just wanted to let you know that if you find a decal that isn't leaping, I will be the first to apologize to you. Just that in all my wandering of tractor boneyards, I never seen or heard of one. I listed the link to just show everyone about that part of the Deere history. Hope you understand I am not trying to "show you up" or anyone for that matter.

That being said, if you happen to go to one and find a left hand grill for a styled B that isn't rusted or bent all up, please let me know. Mine looks like the previous owner tried to pry on it with a 2x4 and my local boneyard want too much for me.

Case closed on my part....except the B grill.....

bob

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:36 pm

thank you bob that was well put dont suppose you have a parts link so i know what to look for?

bob15 · Post by **bob15** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:05 pm

Rod, here is a couple grills that are on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/JOHN-DEERE-B-GRILLE-GR...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/john-deere-b-left-gril...1QQcmdZViewItem

The first auction for the two will probably go for more than I want to spend. The second on (red in the pic) isn't bad looking, but looking in person is better than one photo. If you saw anything, if you could get a price that would be great. I will be going to NY in a couple weeks in another junkyard, so I have my fingers crossed.

Thanks RP....bob

Liquifire 4/6 · Post by **Liquifire 4/6** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:38 pm

This post has been quite entertaining, but it's getting a little long in the tooth lately with the bashing. I've learned some nifty trivia from it and I'll certainly use some of it in our derby's vinatge sled trivia contest. I appreciate ALL the responses from ALL the people who've posted replies. I think perhaps, the most important thing we've learned is that we are all human and we can all make mistakes...I'm sure many of my answers were incorrect. I'd suggest this tread be locked. But, it sure has been fun for a few days!