Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
I was torqueing the bolts to spec on the primary clutch on my Liquifire (20 ft-lbs) and they snapped off before they reached spec (or my torque wrench is malfuctioning). Any ideas how to get them out without damaging the threaded hole. Where can I get more?
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
How many did you snap off? How deep is it in? Did the bolt bottom out (too long a bolt)? If the bolt is flush you must carefully drill out the center and try and use an easy out. Drilling the center out will also relieve the bolt pressure which will help. Be careful not to snap the easy out off. Do that and it's easier to junk the clutch over getting out a hardened piece of steel. Use a good penetrating oil (NOT WD-40) on the threads. If part of the bolt is sticking out, vise-grips and oil.
If you can get the bolt(s) out, find out why it snapped. Chase the threads and make sure the bolts aren't too long. What type torque wrench (dial, clicker, beam) and what is its range (0-100 or 0-50 lbs)?
good luck
bob
If you can get the bolt(s) out, find out why it snapped. Chase the threads and make sure the bolts aren't too long. What type torque wrench (dial, clicker, beam) and what is its range (0-100 or 0-50 lbs)?
good luck
bob
When in doubt, I'll whip it out. I got me a rock 'n 'roll band. It's a free for all.....The Nuge
Make it three yards m*****f-er and you've got yourself an automobile race...James Taylor
Make it three yards m*****f-er and you've got yourself an automobile race...James Taylor
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Reverse drill bits are a great help when drilling the hole for the easy out. Since the bolt broke off tightening it its probably not stuck so often using a reverse bit will spin the bolts out. When you break a rusted/seized bolt off the reverse bits usally dont help but in your situation theres a good chance they will.
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Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
I really don't think it's your torque wrench, I think you got some misinformation, 20 ft. lbs. is WAY to high for the 6 - 1/4" bolts holding the cover plate on. Unfortunately I can't find anyplace in the service books that I have that give the correct torque specs for the cover bolts, all it says is "Tighten the six screws evenly & securely" And believe me that isn't anywhere near 20 ft. lbs. especially on the soft knurled type locking cap screws on some of the 102C Comets even the ones on the newer 102's with the longer 1/4" grade 5 bolts don't get tightened that tight.............
Kenny
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Kenny,
Here is photo of the page of the tech manual where I got the 20 ft-lbs.
Justin
Here is photo of the page of the tech manual where I got the 20 ft-lbs.
Justin
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400brian
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Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
I'm with Kenny, 20 ft lbs is way too much for a 1/4" bolt.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Justin, I see where your coming from but that is way high (maybe a misprint????)
Rich, Might know if there was a service bulletin on this????
Here is where I'm coming from
Bolt Assembly Torque (ft-lb) [N?m Chart]
The torque values in the table are based on the use of lubricated threads.
Coarse Thread
Size Grade 2 Iron Grade 5 Iron Grade 8 Iron Aluminum
1/4-20 (NC) == 6 ----------------- 7 ------------- 11 ---------- 6
5/16-18 (NC) = 18 ---------------- 15 ------------ 22 ------------ 12
3/8-16 (NC) = ---------------------- 30 ----------- 40 ------------ 20
7/16-14 (NC) = 32 ----------------- 45 ------------ 65 ------------ 35
1/2-13 (NC) = 50 ------------------70------------- 95 ------------ 55
Fine Thread
Size Grade 2 Iron Grade 5 Iron Grade 8 Iron Aluminum
1/4-28 (NF) == 6 ------------------ 9 -------------- 13 ----------- 7
5/16-24 (NF) ==12 ----------------- 17 -------------- 24 ---------- 14
3/8-24 (NF) == ------------------- 30 --------------- 45 ---------- 25
7/16-20 (NF) ==36----------------- 50 --------------- 70 ---------- 40
1/2-20 (NF) == 55 ---------------- 75 ---------------- 110 ---------- 60
compared to this chart the bolt torque would be 7 or 11 ft. lbs......
The bolts are 1/4 right (7/16 socket)???
Kenny
Rich, Might know if there was a service bulletin on this????
Here is where I'm coming from
Bolt Assembly Torque (ft-lb) [N?m Chart]
The torque values in the table are based on the use of lubricated threads.
Coarse Thread
Size Grade 2 Iron Grade 5 Iron Grade 8 Iron Aluminum
1/4-20 (NC) == 6 ----------------- 7 ------------- 11 ---------- 6
5/16-18 (NC) = 18 ---------------- 15 ------------ 22 ------------ 12
3/8-16 (NC) = ---------------------- 30 ----------- 40 ------------ 20
7/16-14 (NC) = 32 ----------------- 45 ------------ 65 ------------ 35
1/2-13 (NC) = 50 ------------------70------------- 95 ------------ 55
Fine Thread
Size Grade 2 Iron Grade 5 Iron Grade 8 Iron Aluminum
1/4-28 (NF) == 6 ------------------ 9 -------------- 13 ----------- 7
5/16-24 (NF) ==12 ----------------- 17 -------------- 24 ---------- 14
3/8-24 (NF) == ------------------- 30 --------------- 45 ---------- 25
7/16-20 (NF) ==36----------------- 50 --------------- 70 ---------- 40
1/2-20 (NF) == 55 ---------------- 75 ---------------- 110 ---------- 60
compared to this chart the bolt torque would be 7 or 11 ft. lbs......
The bolts are 1/4 right (7/16 socket)???
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
This is a good post that needs to be resolved, I for one, in the past ruined many a good movable clutch sheave by over wrenching the older short knurled locking cover bolts & then not being able to drill them out afterward...
I suppose I could call Hoffco up tomorrow to find out what they recommend???
I just can't believe that this hasn't come up before this??? At least Justin was reading his SM/TM can't blame him for that....
Anybody have a older or newer service manual to see what it says??? Justin's is a NOV. 81 manual
Kenny
I suppose I could call Hoffco up tomorrow to find out what they recommend???
I just can't believe that this hasn't come up before this??? At least Justin was reading his SM/TM can't blame him for that....
Anybody have a older or newer service manual to see what it says??? Justin's is a NOV. 81 manual
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
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Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
I just worked on a Comet in the past week. I considered using locktite on the cover bolts, but in the end I did not. I am generally hesitant to use locktite where a fastener is threaded into aluminum. The original bolts have a locking head design, I'm not sure they were ever thread locked.
I pulled them up tight with a box end 7/16 wrench. The torque spec used was "experience".
I pulled them up tight with a box end 7/16 wrench. The torque spec used was "experience".
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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Deleted User
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Reading the text on the page you provided I see where it says"tighten screws to 10-12 ft lbs. As with everyone else I have to say 20 ft.lbs. is too high.
soft bolts like those used here will usually take some abuse but not repeatedly. Once overtightened they will stretch. once stretched they will break either coming off or when they are retorgued. If you can get the old ones out I would replace all of them.
soft bolts like those used here will usually take some abuse but not repeatedly. Once overtightened they will stretch. once stretched they will break either coming off or when they are retorgued. If you can get the old ones out I would replace all of them.
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
TM 1217 (Aug 80) says 20 ft-lb. Bought this manual new in 1980. I see where I crossed out 20 ft-lb when I was rebuilding back then and penciled in 95 in-lb which is 7.9 ft-lb. I got the 95 in-lb from Chrysler Engineering Specs, "target torque", for 1/4-20 grade 5 into aluminum with a minimum thread engagement of 2 times bolt diameter. Target torque is just that, the target or nominal, +/- a bit from that value for manufacturing tolerances.
TM1217 (Nov 81) says 20 ft-lb. Bought this manual new from JD about 2 years ago. Same page as posted above. It also covers the TR800 and says 12 ft-lb for all nine cover screws. Don't know anything about a TR800......never had one.
Cover bolts from an original (?) 80LF clutch are 1/4-20 grade 5, leastwise it had a cover with the JD logo. Bolts from it are 1.75 long, used split lock washer. Bolts from new aftermarket 80LF replacement clutch purchased a couple of years ago are grade 5 (three slash marks on head)
87 Arctic Cat El Tigre 6000 manual with 102C says 7 ft-lb
92 Arctic Cat EXT Manual with 108C with cast cover says 7 ft-lb.
The above Cat clutches are 1/4-20 grade 5
Somewhere I have a Comet re-build manual........the question is where?? Cannot find it this morning.
I think the above Deere manuals are in error, should be about 7 ft-lb. Hope this helps............Guy
TM1217 (Nov 81) says 20 ft-lb. Bought this manual new from JD about 2 years ago. Same page as posted above. It also covers the TR800 and says 12 ft-lb for all nine cover screws. Don't know anything about a TR800......never had one.
Cover bolts from an original (?) 80LF clutch are 1/4-20 grade 5, leastwise it had a cover with the JD logo. Bolts from it are 1.75 long, used split lock washer. Bolts from new aftermarket 80LF replacement clutch purchased a couple of years ago are grade 5 (three slash marks on head)
87 Arctic Cat El Tigre 6000 manual with 102C says 7 ft-lb
92 Arctic Cat EXT Manual with 108C with cast cover says 7 ft-lb.
The above Cat clutches are 1/4-20 grade 5
Somewhere I have a Comet re-build manual........the question is where?? Cannot find it this morning.
I think the above Deere manuals are in error, should be about 7 ft-lb. Hope this helps............Guy
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ICCSF 108
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Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
I've left a message at Hoffcocomet & will post there recommendations as soon as I get them
Kenny
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Just now found some Comet rebuild data, dated 2-1-97, for 102C, 108C, 108 EXP, 108 4-Pro, it says 135 in-lb which is about 11 ft-lb. So from that and the above, it looks like 7 to 11 ft-lbs range.
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Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Direct from Hoffcocomet Ind. today, Torque Specs for the cover cap screws on the 100-102-108's = 12 ft lbs. please correct your JD Service/Technical Manuals..
Kenny
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
Bolts on 102 C Clutch Cover Plate
Another that should be mentioned is the fact that being a grade 5 bolt it can be drilled out easy enough. If they were grade 8 bolts or stainless bolts, forget it. Another reason to put the correct grade hardware into the part that is being assembled.
bob
bob
When in doubt, I'll whip it out. I got me a rock 'n 'roll band. It's a free for all.....The Nuge
Make it three yards m*****f-er and you've got yourself an automobile race...James Taylor
Make it three yards m*****f-er and you've got yourself an automobile race...James Taylor