80-84 L.F. Seizures
80-84 L.F. Seizures
If I remember correctly, the leading problem with the burn downs in the LFs' were the oil injection ferrules right? Didnt they get clogged in that check valve & the rest was history. I can remember when there were at least a dozen LFs' bought in & around my family back in the 80s', and a lot of them suffered a scored cylinder or two. I can remember my 2 uncles had them and both were traced back to the oil injection being clogged. I also remember a friend of my uncles that worked for JD and said he took his own LF's oil ferrules, and carbs and soaked them & cleaned every fall and he never lost a cylinder, and that sled,I remember was built to the limit with AAEN parts, it was damn fast in the day. The Kawy engine was a good engine when taken care of correct? Any thoughts? thanks
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JDXspec
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80-84 L.F. Seizures
I can't say whatn the problems were back i the 80s But from what i have heard in the last few yrs on the is board is the seizures are more attributed to dirty carbs and running w/o an air box without rejeting to compensate (powerjets). The biggest thing is disconnecting the oil injection there is no lube for the center seal or bearing. There also not letting them warm properly and cold seizing it. I haven't really heard much for oil injection failing. (although I have an A/C that had oil injection failure)
Own 74 295/s, 75 340/S, 800, 76 440 Liquifire, 300, Liquidator (3), 78 440 Liquifire, 340 Liquifire CC, 80 Liquifire, 82 Trailfire LX, 83 Sprintfire 84 Sportfire
80-84 L.F. Seizures
well today I took the oil ferrules off the cylinders, and soaked them with carb cleaner, blew air thru them and walla, a little crud flew out & on to the white towel. I cant get the center crank ferrule off so I just blew air thru it, knowing its flowing. There are check valves in those correct? I am going to contin ue running the oil injection, I will just make sure the carbs & oil lines are very clean. I took the airbox off and washed it very good, blew it out too.
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Last edited by ralphy on Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
Hi,Iv'ed owned a 1980 liquifire since 85.I bought this sled from a guy who was the original owner.He had the cylinders ported,invader heads,pipes all done by aaen.Put the 38 carbs on it.This thing was a rocket back in the day.When i bought the sled the oil injection was plugged off.I never thought nothing of it.I was premixing gas at 50 to 1.Well i kept blowing the ring landing off the top of the wiseco piston only on the pto side,never on the mag side.This confused me.Now that i read alot of these question/answers i don't see anyone running without the oil injection.And the wierd thing is it never had a bearing seizure either.I would assume now that the oil to gas ratio was too lean w/out the pump.Is it still possible to run the pump only for the c/bearings and plug off the cylinders and still premix and what ratio?The last time she blew the thicker thrust washer came apart on the pto side and got on top of the piston.ouch!Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! thank you !!!
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ICCSF 108
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Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
IN the Service Text or TM 1217 it give the flow rate for the oil injection lines.
It says in group 15, page 30-15-01 connect auxiliary fuel tank with 50:1 premix fuel to the inline filter. Disconnect oil pump output lines at pump. Install oil lines to each outlet and place end of each in a separate container. Start and run engine at 3000 rpm. Hold the pump lever in the rear wide open position, measure the output of each port in a calibrated glass tube. Correct output from the port to the crankcase should be 3.35 - 4.06 cc's per minute. The output from each port to the cylinder fittings should be 1.68 - 2.03 cc's per minute. Replace pump if output is below these specifications.
The myth that the center Bearings & center seal only get oiling form the 3rd pump line is just that a myth The center seal doesn't need oil because it doesn't touch anything moving, & the inner bearings get oil from the cyl just like any other 2-stroke would.
Now I'm not saying that the Kawi Gods thought that they needed more oil in the center area of the crank for only they would know why?? Maybe to help seal & neutralize the case compression between the 2 cyl.s ?? or maybe to also help give the cyl.s more oil without mixing it with the intake gases??
I have also been told by one of the members on this board that he couldn't find any way that the oil even went anyplace, now this I have confirmed as I don't know where I stored my spare case at, but I will ck into that..
Any of the Kawi guy's on here from the Kawi board have any Idea why the 3rd line to the case??
My bet would be if a engine seizes it more likely from dirty carbs leaning the engine out or improper jetting.
Kenny
It says in group 15, page 30-15-01 connect auxiliary fuel tank with 50:1 premix fuel to the inline filter. Disconnect oil pump output lines at pump. Install oil lines to each outlet and place end of each in a separate container. Start and run engine at 3000 rpm. Hold the pump lever in the rear wide open position, measure the output of each port in a calibrated glass tube. Correct output from the port to the crankcase should be 3.35 - 4.06 cc's per minute. The output from each port to the cylinder fittings should be 1.68 - 2.03 cc's per minute. Replace pump if output is below these specifications.
The myth that the center Bearings & center seal only get oiling form the 3rd pump line is just that a myth The center seal doesn't need oil because it doesn't touch anything moving, & the inner bearings get oil from the cyl just like any other 2-stroke would.
Now I'm not saying that the Kawi Gods thought that they needed more oil in the center area of the crank for only they would know why?? Maybe to help seal & neutralize the case compression between the 2 cyl.s ?? or maybe to also help give the cyl.s more oil without mixing it with the intake gases??
I have also been told by one of the members on this board that he couldn't find any way that the oil even went anyplace, now this I have confirmed as I don't know where I stored my spare case at, but I will ck into that..
Any of the Kawi guy's on here from the Kawi board have any Idea why the 3rd line to the case??
My bet would be if a engine seizes it more likely from dirty carbs leaning the engine out or improper jetting.
Kenny
Last edited by ICCSF 108 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
So Kenny,what do you say about disconnecting the pump and premixing?I just don't trust oil injection.If i need to keep it hooked up i will. But if a lot of people don't think it's necessary then i'll leave it blocked off.Iv'ed looked to see where the third line runs inside the case,and it doesn't look like the oil would really go anywhere also as the c/seal has o-rings on both sides.And i don't see a hole to the center.How would the oil get to the bearing's? Then what would be a good ratio for oil/gas to use?I really appreciate you commenting on this question!Any help on this is greatly appreciated. 
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ICCSF 108
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Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
I wouldn't not use the pump, as by not getting any oil it could lock up & break thus no water pump.. Now I haven't disassembled a oil pump to see if you could remove the pump rotor & also look to see that they are using sealed bearings. IF you could remove the rotor & the pump had sealed bearings & it still would drive the water pump then it should work to not use it & run straight premix??
But would using the pump & premixing say at like maybe 60:1 or 70:1 be OK??? But IF the pump would quit pumping oil say on one side would say 70:1 be enough??
I guess IF it were mine I would clean the oil tank yearly, flush the lines, change the oil line filter yearly (WITH THE CORRECT TYPE OIL FILTER) & make sure the pump was working to Deere's specs..
Kenny
But would using the pump & premixing say at like maybe 60:1 or 70:1 be OK??? But IF the pump would quit pumping oil say on one side would say 70:1 be enough??
I guess IF it were mine I would clean the oil tank yearly, flush the lines, change the oil line filter yearly (WITH THE CORRECT TYPE OIL FILTER) & make sure the pump was working to Deere's specs..
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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Kulture Vulture
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Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
The first LF I ever tore down had the pump disconnected. The inside crank bearings seized, and spun inside the case, while the outside bearings are fine. Ruined the case too. I`m guessing this is from lack of lubrication?
The failsafe way in my opinion to run without injection would be to leave the center hose, and run the other two back to the tank, and run premix.
The failsafe way in my opinion to run without injection would be to leave the center hose, and run the other two back to the tank, and run premix.
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That Girl Racing
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Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
The Mikuni oil pump on the Deeres is virtually the same one used on todays sleds. I have never seen one fail back then or today. As they wear out they are designed to allow more oil flow and if the cable breaks the arm swings around and delivers full flow. Am I missing something here?
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A1 SLEDER JIM
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Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
i bought a liquifire from a guy who bought it from a racer. the racer tryed to run premix and blew the center crank bearings. i bought and had to replace crank. I would not remove the center it lubes the labraynth seal too. to run premix leave the center connected always. premix is a pain why use it. to limiting.
jim
jim
Re: 80-84 L.F. Seizures
I just rebuilt my tc440a and i looked to see where the oil goes once inside the crankcase.Doesn't really look like it could get to the bearings.The labyrinth seal has o-rings on both sides and i didn't see a hole to the middle of the seal.So how does the oil get to the seal,let alone the bearings?????