Deere Hunting: Finding the IFS Liquifire

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:04 am

It's been a long time coming, but an 1981 era IFS Liquifire prototype finally surfaced after being locked away for some 25 years.

I first hears rumors of this "Strut Liquifire" way back in 1990 from surveyor named Winston at power company in Vermont (CVPS) where I was a co-op student. He told me about a prototype Liquifire he saw back in the mid 80's. It had a strut IFS, but was "kind of rough around the edges" as it wasn't a production sled. I was lead to believe that this could have been the 1985 Liquifire. I was sceptical, but hoped to find out more info.

Then in an August 1993 issue of SnoGoer, there was a "Timeline" Artical about the 2nd generation John Deere Liquifire. After describing the some of the details of the 1980-84 with a few small errors (missing the intro of the TR-800 by a year and when describing the HRS ignition, failed to mention it came out in 82) the artical went on to talk about Stan Hays: "He described an independant strut front end that was being tested back in the 80's. To compliment the front, a long travel rear would have to be utilized"

There it was in print. So Winston was right after all...

And here is the last few paragraphs where Stan was quoted about the IFS Prototypes:

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:22 am

Fast forward a few years to where "Matt and Joe's John Deere Sleds" is picking up steam and members at the end of the 90's. As membership expands, so do rumors of this infamous "Wildfire" and the resulting speculation of what it could have been. Kawi had the 530cc "Square Block" Interceptor motor, and would have made sence that Deere would tested it for use in future products. Could Deere have built prototypes of this "Wildfire" back in 80's with the big motor, IFS and the works? Well, sort of....

In 2007 Robert J. Carlson was inducted into the HoF in St. Germain. I was given a heads up by a collector in Horicon, and was told to make whatever plans I needed to do to be there. Specutation had it that RJ's induction would also bring out pic's of the much rumored "Wildfire".

It turns out that Dick Teal showed up a copy of a memo at the HOF in 07 where a manager recommends that the new Trailfire sized Liquifire follow the TF introduction by a year and "call it WILDFIRE". OK, so the 1980 Liquifire could have been called "Wildfire" but what about IFS?

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:31 am

In the few weeks before the Feb 2009 induction of Robert Carlson, anticipation grew of not just who we would meet at the HoF for Deere VIP's, but what pic's we could see of the infamous IFS Prototypes. Well it turns out a member on the board decided to share some pic's he had been keeping priviate to preview what might be shown at the HOF.

Sure enough these pic's showed two IFS Liquifires in a holding yard. Many of us guess or assumed these were taken at Polaris after the buy out. This was verfied to be true this year...

Next up: Dick Teal's HOF pic's...

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:54 am

Before the 2007 induction cermony and "Ride with the Champs" Jon Carlson arranged a Deere meet and greet at the HOF with Loren Anderson. One of the many highlight was Dick Teal's photo album containing pic's of prototype Deere's under developement.

Two pic's that made a big splash where of the IFS prototype Liquifire's undergoing testing in Alaska. If you look at the pic on the mountain top, Joe Wanie pointed out a prototype Sprintfire with a gauge pod on the handle bars, and most of the other sleds are 81 Model year. This suggests the IFS Proto was built and tested in the winter of 1980/81. I had asked Stan Hayes a few years ago if the strut Liquifire was going to be the the 1985 model, to which he replied "No, it would have been much ealier than that" Based on Wanies observation, and the fact that the Sprintfire was built in 10/81 as a pre-preduction release, I think it's safe to estimate the IFS Liquifire could have been a late 82 or full 83 build.

Post by **guitardude081** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:06 pm

Now I know where the EFI rumor came from. I remember hearing a long time ago that the '85 sled was going to be a 530 L/C with Batteryless EFI.....EFI wasn't in a sled until 1992...and it used a battery which was prone to failure. Keep it up Mr. Rainville. This is interesting stuff. Look at your last picture. The third sled in is either a Centurion/TXL Indy or a new proto. the hood is indy-like and if you look closely at the ski, it's not flat, it has an IFS keel on it.
~Jack

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:19 pm

As of Feb 2007 we know the IFS sleds were built, and we know there were more than one of them. Most of us probably assumed they were destroyed, crushed or otherwise disposed of at Polaris, never to be seen by the Deere faithful. Ed Kruel has been kind enough to post more pic's of the IFS Liquifires to give us more insite into the project and try to fill our appitite for IFS information.

Enter a well connected owner of a very popular vintage web site, Larry Preston of vintagesleds.com. Larry loves his Polaris sleds, but appriciates many other brands, especially rare prototypes. He lets me know under confidence that there is an IFS Liquifire in a storage facility in Roesau, and there are more than one of them there. He told me to keep it under my hat, but that he was working with his contacts inside Polaris to get one freed up for viewing at the Waconia show. This was in the spring of 09.

With help from Aaron Johnson, the son of the creater of the first Polaris Sno-Traveler, Larry was able to get the Liqufire brought down to Waconia for everyone to see. I was honored when Larry asked me to speak about it on camera, and then John Zeglin asked me on Saturday if I would give a talk about it on Sunday. It was really the highlite of my day to get to do a disscussion of the strut IFS Liquifire for the show attenders.

Saturday evening I was able to talk with Stan Hayes and Larry Swanson about the technical details as I saw them, to make sure I was going to be accurate on Sunday. Larry was great to speak to, and gave me a lot of background on the IFS front end.

As of now, the sled is on its way back to Polaris...and thank you Larry for getting this done for all of us.

The End?

-Rainville

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:49 pm

For the next part of the story, I will post a technical feature review of this sled vs. the production Liquifires. This will be on a separte thread.

Thanks for reading...
-Joe Rainville

Post by **WinnipegStPaul9** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:32 pm

JoeRainville wrote:
JoeRainville wrote:So as of Feb 2007 we know the IFS sleds were built, and we know there were more than one of them. Most of us probably assumed they were destroyed, crushed or otherwise disposed of at Polaris, never to be seen by the Deere faithful. Ed Kruel has been kind enough to post more pic's of the IFS Liquifires to give us more insite into the project and try to fill our appitite for IFS information.

Enter a well connected owner of a very popular vintage web site, Larry Preston of vintagesleds.com. Larry loves his Polaris sleds, but appriciates many other brands, especially rare prototypes. He lets me know under confidence that there is an IFS Liquifire in a storage facility in Roesau, and there are more than one of them there. He told me to keep it under my hat, but that he was working with his contacts inside Polaris to get one freed up for viewing at the Waconia show. This was in the spring of 09.

With help from Aaron Johnson, the son of the creater of the first Polaris Sno-Traveler, Larry was able to get the Liqufire brought down to Waconia for everyone to see. I was honored when Larry asked me to speak about it on camera, and then John Zeglin asked me on Saturday if I would give a talk about it on Sunday. It was really the highlite of my day to get to do a disscussion of the strut IFS Liquifire for the show attenders.

I was able to talk with Stan Hayes and Larry Swanson about the technical details as I saw them, to make sure I was going to be accurate on Sunday. Larry was great to speak to, and gave me a lot of background on the IFS front end.

As of now, the sled is on its way back to Polaris...and thank you Larry for getting this done for all of us.

The end?

-Rainville

AirborneX4Special · Post by **AirborneX4Special** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:57 pm

The bottom line:
Deere quit snowmobiles due to several factors, not the least of which was economic pressures on their core business at the time, They may have been selling more sleds than anyone else in the early '80s, but their tractor line sold the fewest units in decades due to a dismal ag economy. Agriculture was their core business and snowmobile production, in their view, had less potential as a consumer product than lawn tractors. Selling the line to Polaris freed up cash and allowed expansion of a business they perceived as a winner.

We sled heads lost out on a great line of products that offered an alternative to the cookie cutter heavy machines everyone else was building at the time. Let's face it: we don't continue to chase scarce parts and pull wrenches while reading greasy 25 year old service manuals just because it's fun working on old scrap!

mikehjd · Post by **mikehjd** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:44 pm

So am I reading correctly that there is more than 1 on these IFS sleds tucked away in a polaris warehouse? If so what are they and will we ever get a peak at them?

AirborneX4Special · Post by **AirborneX4Special** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:15 pm

There were three according to what photographic evidence currently exists, but there could have been more. I think it's amazing that Polaris kept one around for nearly 30 years just for sheer entertainment purposes, essentially. The location or demise of the others, alleged or otherwise is clearly open to speculation until further notice.

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:43 pm

Hi Guys,

Here is my take on the topic at hand:

Deere got out of the sled business because the market imploded. In 1974 Deere built about 40,000 sleds I believe. For 79, they built about 22,000 Trailfire 340 & 440 models and 340 "Green" Spitfire's. By 1982 they had a full 5 sled line up, plus the early release "83" Snow and Sprintfires, but only managed to move about 11,000 sleds in a market that bottomed out at 85,000 units in 1983. For 1984 Deere built about 1,700 sleds, probably to help lower the carryover situation. Even the reformed Artco built 2,700 of the technically dated El Tigre's and Panther models for 1984. Oddly enough, Deere got out just as the market started to recover back to the 200,000 plus units sold anually during the 90's.

As for the Prototypes, "I think" 4 were built, with 2 being 440cc Liquids and 2 others being 500 or 550cc Fan's. I am told 3 of these strut sleds have been touched reciently. I can't tell you what the future holds, but at least the folks at Polaris know the 81 Prototype was loved by the Deere collectors at Waconia.

The truth is out there, sometimes way out there...
-Rainville

AirborneX4Special · Post by **AirborneX4Special** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:09 pm

Deere was getting out at the time the general economic situation was improving. I have always been told the " motivation " to build and market snowmobiles, that is, the executive authority within the company, was no longer present by the time of the sale to Polaris. That info came to me via my local John Deere Dealer, who has a passion for all things Deere to this day.

All that aside, I'm fairly certain the passion for Deere sleds is alive and kicking, clearly evidenced by the turnout at Waconia and the chatter on this site in the few short days since. I have every confidence the energy displayed by gents like Mr. Rainville and his bidding partner (and new Dator owner) Horicon Joe will unearth whatever prototypes still exist.

Post by **Matt** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:58 pm

Airborne,
Your dealer was right-on about that. With out the Deere VP Robert Carlson driving the snowmobile program, there was very little support for it.

AirborneX4Special · Post by **AirborneX4Special** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:16 pm

Matt
I don't think my dealer was terribly pleased when Deere abandoned the market. He keeps his CP shop busy all winter wrenching on snowmobiles of all makes until pre - season mower service time arrives. Snowmobiles were a nice fit for his dealership; he maintains a Deere sled collection and still has his dealer sign in storage.

Great job on the site, by the way. I really enjoy participating and hope I can add some value for everyone involved.