Liquifire: 80-81 VS. 82-84?

[gixxer6]

Does the 82-84 Liquifire make more HP than the 80-81? Would there be any benefit in running the 82-84 CDI over the 80-81?

[AirborneX4Special]

According to a dealer bulletin entitled 1982 Changes And Improvements, only the ignition spark curve changed on the 82 and up LF's, not the hp. The idea was to improve holeshot performance and avoid the lag typical on 80 - 81 models. The Kokusan ignition, as Deere called it, was also intended to improve reliability for starting and idle. In addition, the oil pump output and calibration were changed to reduce oil consumption at lower rpms which tended to foul plugs and inhibit throttle response. I do not think retrofitting is possible for the older engines because the parts are scarce and no aftermarket consolidated igniton boxes exist.

[gixxer6]

I am building a modded Invader motor and was wondering if there would be any gains to be had by running the updated JD ignition?

[AirborneX4Special]

Are you using dual spark plug Invader heads?

[gixxer6]

I have a nice set of 4/6 dual plug heads, but I opted to use single plug Invader heads that have been shaved.

[AirborneX4Special]

Does your engine currently have the separate coil/cdi arrangement like 80/81 LF's? I do not know if the Kokusan setup will retrofit to the older engines because the internal coils and wiring are different, not to mention the mounting hardware for the coil itself. If you change all the electrical components and modify the mounting base for the coil/cdi combo, I suppose it would work because the engines are similar. Finding those parts will be difficult because so few were manufactured and Deere was already quitting the market by 1982. Kawasaki was building it's last model year at the same time and the ignitions were their creation.

I had an 80 and a friend had an 81 with an 83 engine installed; both had 80/81 clutching setups. We drag raced several times. He consistently beat me on standing starts and I consistently beat him on 10 mph rolling starts. This happened every time, irregardless of weather, and the clutches were set up by the same mechanic who raced Deere sleds and knew what he was doing.

[gixxer6]

The engine came with a seperate coil and cdi. But I am in the process of building the engine right now, and the only electrical piece installed is the stator. I don't even have the flywheel on yet so it would be easy to change it.

If I wanted to change it what parts would I need? Stator? CDI/coil? Is the engine cover that the cdi box mounts to different from 80-81 to 82-84?

[AirborneX4Special]

The magneto cover/coil bracket is different only where the external coil is mounted. I have an 82 that was overhauled when I bought it and the original mounting bolts had stripped out, so the cover could not be used. The guy bolted on an earlier vintage cover and made some mods so the coil would fasten properly. I have ridden the sled for years that way and it has been fine; I can check it out for you and see what was done if you end up doing this. I have the original cover and intend to use it as soon as I can get it repaired; so many sleds.....so little time.

All that said, those parts will retrofit and bolt on, but you will need all of them to make it work. The parts are just plain scarce but I'm sure they are out there somewhere. I have seen an NOS stator for 82 - 84 on Evilbay, as everyone on this site calls it, but that is all I have seen. The issue is production volume and attitude since way more 80/81's were built and Deere was phasing it all out by 82 production time.

[Norton]

Thought I would step in a share thoughts on this 2nd gen Liquifire ignition issue. First off I got this great running 82 Liquifire converted back to the 1 1/4 wide belt & 102C. It also has a aftermarket CD/coil pack with some minor harness mods to make it fit. The cdi/coil pack has no identification on it either. Just one small problem with this setup. As soon as underhood temps get high it only idles. Cools back down and it is a 80+ mph sled. The rev limiter is disconnected from the circut and the result is the same, so the issue is with stator, CDI/coil pack or trigger.
So the other day I was at the local Polaris dealer and they have this CDI/coil pack on the counter. Looks almost identical to the one on my 82 Liquifire except it says Kokusan on it (isn't what Deere used). The parts guy says it was off an 80's Indy 400.
If we are going to keep these old girls running we need to start thinking outside the box and find cheap used parts from sleds with higher production numbers. Any thoughts that out there that there might be usable ignition parts connection between the 82-84 Liquifire and the Indy 400?
If I do get this ignition thing figured out the CDI/coil pack will be mounted anyplace but on the engine! Maybe the airbox where it is cool and vibration free!

keith

[JDT]

Keith that makes since. Keep us updated.

[tjsdad]

The HSR ignition is a lot better than the 80-81 ignitions overall. They start better, have little low end bog if any, but yes, are harder to find replacements. Bob @ Image in Eagle River rebuilds the HSR coil/ CDI packs. The whole ignition is different ( flywheel, stator, coil/ CDI ), and the aluminum housing. When I converted my 81 over to the 82 HSR and clutches, gearing, it was a whole new sled. It was sooo much quicker, starts with a slight tug of the rope, and it uses a lot less fuel vs. the 102C. I did drill out the bosses in the newer aluminum housing so if that ignition goes south, I can change the flyweel, stator, and coil to the 80-81 w/o pulling the engine again. If your sled is going to be for a little racing fun, use the HSR if possible with the Invader heads. I left mine with the 2C heads as I didnt want anymore detonation problems like I had before.

[AirborneX4Special]

The Kokusan system is highlighted in Deere's 1982 Changes And Improvements dealer update bulletin, printed in November, 1981. There is a graph showing the spark curve comparison in that bulletin, along with all the other features arriving in 82. I have driven sleds with both types of systems and would agree that the newer setup uses less fuel, starts/idles better, and fouls fewer spark plugs. Deere changed the oil pump calibrations for 82 which jives with the dirty plug issues on 80/81's. I have an 81 with an 83 engine; it has the original 1- 1/4 secondary setup that works fine. The original 102C wore out and was replaced with a 108EXP, which is a great clutch.

[ljm]

Does anyone have a serial # break for when the switched ignition's?
I have a 80 and a 81. The 81 has the new ignition(Wiring looks like it has been changed but the mounts for the coil loomk original)

Thanks
Lloyd

[S_Kyle]

Llyod, dose the vin have an A stamped after the serial #?

[gixxer6]

Is there an easy way to tell the difference between the 80-81 and 82-84's by looking at the outside? Different decals?