ADDING REVERSE TO A 1980 TRAILFIRE

[flacker36]

I know it never was offered, but has anyone ever retro-fitted an 80 - 84 trail/sport with reverse???

I remember hearing about someone that used the chain/gear case off of a 1989 - 90 Polaris Indy Trail Deluxe with the handlebar lever.

Any info would be great, looking for a summer project!!

Joe

[jdsnowfire]

i have thought about adding revese to a deere, probably the easiest way(possibly only way without major changes) whould be to find a way to adjust the timing and make the engine run backwards as two stroke engines don't care which way they run.
it may require a sled with electric start that you can put a DPDT switch into the power and ground wires to make it so it can be started in either direction-that may be all that is required- have not tried it yet.

exmple-
. Mercury Marine used make a "direct reversing" inline, 6 cylinder outboard.
The single lever control had a starter switch mounted under the handle grip. There was no neutral! If the handle was pointed forward the engine started in forward gear. If the handle was pointed to the rear, the engine would start and run backwards. Pulling the handle straight up killed the engine.

[JDT]

One problem would be finding a switch that would handle the high amps that a starter draws.

A second problem would be that the stock starter uses the starter case as one side of the power, which is negative.

If a second starter(reversing) could be installed this method may work.

[Matt]

There was an old sled that reversed engine rotation as well, I think it was Mercury? Maybe Johnson? It used two completely separate ignition systems to do that.

Not that this applies to you, but I remember seeing it on a modern sled more recently (I think it was Ski-doo), but that was a programmed ignition. It could start normally, then when you hit the switch, it would idle the engine way down, and switch direction and idle back up without having to restart. I'm not sure if that feature ever caught on.

[JDT]

Correct Matt, the old Mercury's had reverse by starting the engine backwards.

Late model Polaris sleds use the one touch reverse button and restart the engine backwards.... even with manual start.
How this works I do not know but it does.

The OMC models, Johnson-Evinrude, used gearing in the chain case to drive backwards.

[jdsnowfire]

A second problem would be that the stock starter uses the starter case as one side of the power, which is negative

i figured there had to be something that would make it a bit harder- forgot about the case being the ground.

-there probably isnt a way to insulate the starter case from the crankcase is there? and would it just short through the bendix IF you could do that?

are there starters that have both power and ground wires?

or does anyone have a deere/kawasaki starter pulled apart that could see if it would be possible to "insulate" the case and run a ground wire out?

or to find a way to attach a different starter behind it that rotates backwards(connecting them together at the shaft).

just throwing ideas out there that might work (at least in theory)

[harleysportster]

More than likely, the old engines which had a reverse had a belt driven starter/generator. These worked in either direction with power feed from a reversing relay system. The Yamaha golf cart from the '70's were like this.
A gear driven starter can not run backwards. The spiral gears would hold the drive gear in instead of forcing it out into the flywheel.

[JDT]

If you were realy hard pressed to do a reverse install I would go for a Cat or Polaris chaincase with a mechanical (geared) reverse.

This would eliminate engine timing issues as you would not have to run the engine backwards and as the design aspect has been done already you would only have to modify the attachment points on the bulkhead/tunnel.

[427cobra]

My 2005 Polaris has the PERC reverse which starts the engine in reverse with a push of a button.

The sled also has electric start. I know they sell the PERC kits on ebay...

[flacker36]

Thanks for all the good info!! Does anyone know if there is a direct fit from one of the other bands?? Someone mentioned Arctic Cat, but I had hear the older polaris indy trail deluxes.

does anyone have results from adding the PERC type systems??

Thanks,

Joe

[JoeRainville]

According to Chris Dotzler, there are a series of common Polaris chain cases that have the same center to center distances between the drive shaft and jackshaft as Deere used. He put one in his "Sunfire" project with the Hydraulic brake. I am assuming this is mid 90's stuff. There is a good bet that a stock Polaris reverse kit would fit into this case.

-Rainville

[lwb140]

any way of adding a second electric starter that mounts on the recoil side of the flywheel this would reverse the rotation without effecting the main starting system you could choose forward or reverse by activating the respective starter to the direction you want to go just a thought wade

[427cobra]

I think the best way would be how Joe decribed. With that set up you could add the mechanical reverse. With the PERC reverse there are probably a few electrical issues that would need to be addressed.

Sounds like a fun project!

[flacker36]

I have had the opportunity to operate the Polaris Indy Deluxe mechanical reverse (lever on handlebar) and it works sweet with no flaws. The key is to find out which Polaris (model/year) has the chaincase that used the same demensions as deere did.

Looking forward to this one!

Joe

[firespitter]

The merc lead sleds had one starter for reverse and one for forward. There was a toggle switch you would have to flip either way first before hitting the starter switch.