Who has a 82-84 Liq handy?

[Danzig]

I would bet anything that your problem is all clutch related, if you arent getting full shift, it wont spool up the engine !!!

[lwb140]

Joe. Was it rebuilt with Wiseco pistons and Invader heads?

is this combo issueous? good bad indifferent ? thanks wade

[That Girl Racing]

I tried the combo a few years ago and found the squish band divergence angle was backward. In other words the taper went the wrong way.

[JoeRainville]

I tried the combo a few years ago and found the squish band divergence angle was backward. In other words the taper went the wrong way.

Peter, your dead on here. Kenny and I verified that when building our I-500 sleds last year. The pro-lite piston Wisco sells for the Kawi sleds is what we used for our Liquifires, but they pinch off the squish band. They do fit the shape of the stock Deere head pretty well though. We have not compared the Wisco Deere P/N vs the Kawi spec unit.

-Joe

[That Girl Racing]

Joe. I sent you a couple of 170 belts. Did you get them?

[JoeRainville]

Peter,

They were here when I got back from the Vintage Challenge. Thanks! One of your M69170's went over 200 miles on my 84 over the weekend.

Thanks again!
-Joe

[kenwaters]

Horicon Joe,

Did you have the crank re-indexed when you rebuilt it? If the seizure twisted things just a tiny bit, timing wouldn't be optimal. Just .02 more cents

[Horicon Joe]

I did not use Kawi heads like mentioned. I am currently directing the investigation to the primary clutch only at this time.
I believe it is sticking not allowing it to close completely. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks
Joe

[That Girl Racing]

A "sticking" clutch as a rule does not drop RPM's. It stops shifting and RPM's go up because the load comes off the motor. It is a clutch that is shifting too fast that causes low RPM's. Usually it is a sacked out spring in either of the clutches or a secondary spring with not enough tension on it. Or............ the motor is down on power.

[AirborneX4Special]

I had a broken slider shoe on an LF secondary last year. It would literally bring things to a screeching halt while the engine just kept gaining rpms.Wet snow had been entering the belly pan where a rivet fell out, so that was the focus until I discovered the broken cam slider shoe.

[Joliet Jake]

Joe
I was talking to you at the hall of fame, and if I remember right I asked if you measured the belt and if it was indeed the correct #.

That Girl Racing has given you some spot on information on clutching and has been with you the entire post.

With that said will add my 02 cents

Engine …..Unless you dynotuned it before and after you can never know if it has the same power and where the power band is. So here we will assume the engine is in perfect tune and the tach is correct.

Belt length…….you should carry a circumference tape with you and measure ever single belt you ever use ………you will be surprised how much a small difference makes.

Center to Center ……and square…… easily overlooked when reinstalling engine.
Don’t worry about belt length if you don’t have this set.

Springs……..they wear out!!
They are the computer chip of your clutching set up.
A stronger primary spring will usually increase engagement but also how fast the shift up is as well as back shifting capabilities…….as the primary gets weaker your engagement RPM should decrease as your up shift RPM should increase in reference to a known speed.

The secondary on the other hand will respond to a stronger spring with an increase in rpm at a given speed and a slower shift out. Button wear changes your spring pressure.

Weights …..increased weight generally mean faster up shift and lower RPM because they load the engine faster.
If your engine isn’t making the same power it used to then a lower rpm will be seen with the same clutch set up.

Gear change …….can effect your set up.

I would check..
Center to Center and Square…..in your case it could have changed with engine rebuild

Belt length and width……TR 800 hard belts to find and very finicky

Springs ….change them out or go find a spring rate tool.

Weights…binding on shafts that are worn…….
Bushings …TR notorious for this

sorry for the long post.......and good luck ....this is half the fun!!!

[Horicon Joe]

Thanks for the help guys. I have been talking to Peter a few times by phone and what a great wealth of knowledge he is! I did clutch testing again
and ruled it out as a problem. With Peter's help I believe I am on the right track on where the problem is. I did a lead squish test between the piston and head
and found it to be way too high by approximately .025 - .030 of a inch too high. This is reducing my HP by lowering the compression. The reason for this I believe is the pistons and gaskets I used. My nos gaskets and pistons dried up after my last build and I used Winderosa gaskets and aftermarket pistons for the first time.
When I measured the aftermarket pistons from the top of the wrist pin to the top of the dome they were .010 shorter than the JD pistons so this can account for about half of the problem. Peter thinks the gaskets I used are thicker than stock JD gaskets and that would account for the rest of the problem. Rebuild is next.
I might try for correct parts or mill the heads to correct.

Jake ...... like you stated in your opening statement "Engine …..Unless you dynotuned it before and after you can never know if it has the same power and where the power band is. So here we will assume the engine is in perfect tune and the tach is correct." I think you are spot on.

With all that said does anyone have the nos gaskets left? I thought I saw top end kits on ebay early this year and cannot find them.
How about NOS pistons or Kawi pistons?

Thanks again
Joe

[JDGuy]

Joe: DK Trader was listing the gasket set a short while ago, AM55588, about $50, the set with separate copper ring and pre-applied sealer. You might contact them and see if they have any left. NOS pistons dried up about 5 years ago via my experience. Others have reported good results with SPI pistons, no experience here.

Guy

[Horicon Joe]

Thanks Guy ..... I will give them a shout

[DeereKid9]

Joe,

Ebay #110820912774

NOS set.

Bob