My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
I converted to electric start, and Everything is working great, except the tach. I think in my wiring conversion, I messed it up. I don't think I'm getting the right signal to it. I've looked at the wiring diagram. Lights all work. Light works on the tack, but the needle on the gauge only worked about 2-3 minutes, and now it just sits at the bottom and bounces a little. Any idea which wire from the tach runs the gauge? Red, yellow, or yellow with a stripe? And where can I hot wire it to and with which wire, to get it to work again. A wire from the lighting coil down by the engine? Any help would be great.
Smiling everyday about my new-to-me 79 Trailfire...priceless!
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ICCSF 108
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- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
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Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
I went out & looked at this sled today thinking I could figure out the wiring so we could get the tach working again, I also took 2 of my own tachs, one 10,000 & one 8,000 RPM with me just in case his tach quit working. Like john said we could get the light to work on all three but the needle didn't move ( only from vibrations )
The question I have does anyone have a tach installed on a Trailfire or Sportfire with electric start out there. What I'm wondering is he didn't get the OEM rectifier with the electric start kit, so he was told to get one that the rectifier & voltage regulator is all in one. I'm thinking that being both wires from the lighting coil goes to this new replacement that it's cutting the voltage so the tach won't work?? John was told that the OEM rectifier AM54972 is no longer available?? I'll ck on this on Monday..
Anybody else have this problem when installing the electric start kit on the Trailfire with a Tach installed??
Kenny
The question I have does anyone have a tach installed on a Trailfire or Sportfire with electric start out there. What I'm wondering is he didn't get the OEM rectifier with the electric start kit, so he was told to get one that the rectifier & voltage regulator is all in one. I'm thinking that being both wires from the lighting coil goes to this new replacement that it's cutting the voltage so the tach won't work?? John was told that the OEM rectifier AM54972 is no longer available?? I'll ck on this on Monday..
Anybody else have this problem when installing the electric start kit on the Trailfire with a Tach installed??
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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harleysportster
- Posts: 2965
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Pat Scott
- Location: Southeast Pa.
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Kenny,ICCSF 108 wrote:What I'm wondering is he didn't get the OEM rectifier with the electric start kit, so he was told to get one that the rectifier & voltage regulator is all in one. I'm thinking that being both wires from the lighting coil goes to this new replacement that it's cutting the voltage so the tach won't work?? John was told that the OEM rectifier AM54972 is no longer available?? Kenny
I am thinking that the newer style rectifier is converting the whole electrical system over to DC voltage and the Tach only works with AC voltage. The OEM rectifier AM54972 only converts the feed to the battery to DC, not the entire lighting circuit.
Take a voltage reading at the lights and see if it is AC or DC.
Go to your local Radio Shack or Electronic store and buy one of these, it is similiar to the OEM retifier.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1N2976-Zener-Di ... 2c653d2011
If you find one of these, do not mount it directly to the metal frame, it has to be insulated or it will ground out.
Pat
'76 440 cyclone
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Hey Kenny and John.
The Red wire on the tach is ground and should hook to the black wire on the dash harness.
The Red/Yellow wire and the Yellow wire are for the tach light and the tach needle.
Both these wires hook together in the dash harness and become brown.
I bet the wiring is not correct when the conversion was done when the "tack kit" was inctalled.
The tach requires AC voltage to read RPM but either AC or DC will light the bulb.
As Pat mentioned you probably are supplying DC to both and that is why the tach is not working.
Recheck the instuctions and wirng diagram if you still have it.
A zenor diode is not a good choice as beyond the rating of the breakdown voltage, in this case 12 V, a zenor will act as a shunt.
That is why Pat said it can not be mounted to the frame. Once the feed voltage reaches 12 V the diode becomes a short.
The long and the short of it is you need to get AC to the Yellow wire on the tach harness.
You can add a wire from the stator connector before the rectififer or just find the error in the conversion to E-start.
The Red wire on the tach is ground and should hook to the black wire on the dash harness.
The Red/Yellow wire and the Yellow wire are for the tach light and the tach needle.
Both these wires hook together in the dash harness and become brown.
I bet the wiring is not correct when the conversion was done when the "tack kit" was inctalled.
The tach requires AC voltage to read RPM but either AC or DC will light the bulb.
As Pat mentioned you probably are supplying DC to both and that is why the tach is not working.
Recheck the instuctions and wirng diagram if you still have it.
A zenor diode is not a good choice as beyond the rating of the breakdown voltage, in this case 12 V, a zenor will act as a shunt.
That is why Pat said it can not be mounted to the frame. Once the feed voltage reaches 12 V the diode becomes a short.
The long and the short of it is you need to get AC to the Yellow wire on the tach harness.
You can add a wire from the stator connector before the rectififer or just find the error in the conversion to E-start.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
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ICCSF 108
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Pat & Todd, I did find where I think I can get the OEM AM54972 but there about $30.00 I think, so should I get that or have john get on of these off of ebay,
( http://www.ebay.com/itm/1N2976-Zener-Di ... 2c653d2011 ) Now these say 10 watts would that be big or low enough for the output on the Trailfire??
If we get either one should we mount it to like the rubber pan or the dash or on a thick piece of hard rubber or where? I can get a chunk of rubber no problem..
Thanks guys I just didn't think about the fact that one of the wires was just for the light, I was trying to figure out how I was going to figure out which yellow wire was for what inside of the tach, it's nice to have some new input to this, I figured we were just trying too hard, it had to be easier than where I was at, LOL
The funniest part of this whole thing is that john & I have known each other for years & nether knew that the other had an interest in Snowmobiles.. until yesterday
Kenny
( http://www.ebay.com/itm/1N2976-Zener-Di ... 2c653d2011 ) Now these say 10 watts would that be big or low enough for the output on the Trailfire??
If we get either one should we mount it to like the rubber pan or the dash or on a thick piece of hard rubber or where? I can get a chunk of rubber no problem..
Thanks guys I just didn't think about the fact that one of the wires was just for the light, I was trying to figure out how I was going to figure out which yellow wire was for what inside of the tach, it's nice to have some new input to this, I figured we were just trying too hard, it had to be easier than where I was at, LOL
The funniest part of this whole thing is that john & I have known each other for years & nether knew that the other had an interest in Snowmobiles.. until yesterday
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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harleysportster
- Posts: 2965
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Pat Scott
- Location: Southeast Pa.
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Kenny,
I think the 10 watt diodes on Ebay would work. I think 10 watts is plenty. The charging coils are only around 120 to handle all the lights at the same time. it looks just like the JD OEM. If it didn't work, at least it was not alot of money. You could mount it in a piece of rubber, plastic or just wrap tape around it. Since the diode is a one-way passage device for electricity, the correct wiring would be to solder a brown wire on the small lug and connect that to the yellow dash lighting wires. The orange wire form the switch would connect to the threaded stud. The Tach should plug directly in a connector in the wire harness. Here is a picture of my Cyclone w ith E Start, the wiring of the soleniod is the same.
I think the 10 watt diodes on Ebay would work. I think 10 watts is plenty. The charging coils are only around 120 to handle all the lights at the same time. it looks just like the JD OEM. If it didn't work, at least it was not alot of money. You could mount it in a piece of rubber, plastic or just wrap tape around it. Since the diode is a one-way passage device for electricity, the correct wiring would be to solder a brown wire on the small lug and connect that to the yellow dash lighting wires. The orange wire form the switch would connect to the threaded stud. The Tach should plug directly in a connector in the wire harness. Here is a picture of my Cyclone w ith E Start, the wiring of the soleniod is the same.
'76 440 cyclone
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
-
harleysportster
- Posts: 2965
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Pat Scott
- Location: Southeast Pa.
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Kenny,
I think the 10 watt diodes on Ebay would work. I think 10 watts is plenty. The charging coils are only around 120 to handle all the lights at the same time. it looks just like the JD OEM. If it didn't work, at least it was not alot of money. You could mount it in a piece of rubber, plastic or just wrap tape around it. Since the diode is a one-way passage device for electricity, the correct wiring would be to solder a brown wire on the small lug and connect that to the yellow dash lighting wires. The orange wire form the switch would connect to the threaded stud. The Tach should plug directly in a connector in the wire harness. Here is a picture of my Cyclone w ith E Start, the wiring of the soleniod is the same.
I think the 10 watt diodes on Ebay would work. I think 10 watts is plenty. The charging coils are only around 120 to handle all the lights at the same time. it looks just like the JD OEM. If it didn't work, at least it was not alot of money. You could mount it in a piece of rubber, plastic or just wrap tape around it. Since the diode is a one-way passage device for electricity, the correct wiring would be to solder a brown wire on the small lug and connect that to the yellow dash lighting wires. The orange wire form the switch would connect to the threaded stud. The Tach should plug directly in a connector in the wire harness. Here is a picture of my Cyclone w ith E Start, the wiring of the soleniod is the same.
- Attachments
-
'76 440 cyclone
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
'76 440 liquifire
'78 440 Cyclone
'75 JDX8 (sold to a member here)
'78 Liquifire(CrossCountry Clone)
'80 Liquifire(sold)
-
jd_decalguy
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 2:55 pm
- Location: palisade, mn
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Hey John, did you get the tach working??
Kenny
Kenny
Chris Dotzler
Palisade, MN
to many old sled...so little time!!!
Palisade, MN
to many old sled...so little time!!!
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Hey guys, sorry to keep you in suspense. After Kenny did all the work to get me a part, I have been swamped!!! I finally have breathing room and room in the barn to work, so I am pulling the sled out this week and weekend to get it fired up and working. The sled runs perfect, except the tach. Hoping the new part fixes that. I told Kenny I really didn't need the tack, but he insists that I get it back to perfect, so I will! We have known each other for years, and it was quite a hoot to find him in my barn with the neighbor working on my sled one day. Will keep you posted on the outcome!
Smiling everyday about my new-to-me 79 Trailfire...priceless!
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ICCSF 108
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
John, Let me know IF you need some help I'll be around for another couple of weeks or so before I head north for the winter..
Kenny
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
OK, it's still not working. It is definitely an electrical issue. Here's what I know:
BEFORE: I rebuilt the motor: new pistons, seals, rings, plugs. Nice adventure last winter. The tach worked at that time, as did the lights...getting brighter when the motor was revved.
NOW: Added in electric start, and SOME of the sled works right.
Here's what works:
Switch Off: Kills motor
Switch to Start: Starts motor
Switch to 1st position(closest to Off): Motor runs and lights are on/brake light works. If turned to this position prior to start lights and brake light work.
Switch to 2nd position(closest to Start): Motor runs and lights do NOT work, brake light does not come on
Tach doesn't work in any switch position, except the light which comes on when the switch is in 1st position.
I don't think the battery is charging. When I check voltage prior to start when off, and then start the sled the voltage is the same. When the lights are on, there is a definite drop in battery voltage. I don't think the lighting coil circuit is working. I think that is my culprit. The diode/rectifier works. I think the voltage regulator works, but not sure how to test.
Now, when I look at the diagram on page 40-20-1 of the Nov-81 Technical manual for the electric start kit, it looks like there should be THREE positions for the switch: off, run and start. I have 4 positions: off, run with lights, run no lights, and start. Do I have the wrong switch? Looks to me like I have a switch with too many positions, but it is what came with the kit (OK, so I bought it used, and the starter, solenoid, switch, wiring all came in the box).
NOW: all this aside, I still don't think my lighting coil/circuit is quite right. Probably I have 2 different problems.
Kenny, if your not busy, and bored, and want to kill some time staring at my machine and playing with it, you are more than welcome to come turn a wrench. Even if I'm not home. The barn is unlocked. My number 810-9699 if you want to call.
BEFORE: I rebuilt the motor: new pistons, seals, rings, plugs. Nice adventure last winter. The tach worked at that time, as did the lights...getting brighter when the motor was revved.
NOW: Added in electric start, and SOME of the sled works right.
Here's what works:
Switch Off: Kills motor
Switch to Start: Starts motor
Switch to 1st position(closest to Off): Motor runs and lights are on/brake light works. If turned to this position prior to start lights and brake light work.
Switch to 2nd position(closest to Start): Motor runs and lights do NOT work, brake light does not come on
Tach doesn't work in any switch position, except the light which comes on when the switch is in 1st position.
I don't think the battery is charging. When I check voltage prior to start when off, and then start the sled the voltage is the same. When the lights are on, there is a definite drop in battery voltage. I don't think the lighting coil circuit is working. I think that is my culprit. The diode/rectifier works. I think the voltage regulator works, but not sure how to test.
Now, when I look at the diagram on page 40-20-1 of the Nov-81 Technical manual for the electric start kit, it looks like there should be THREE positions for the switch: off, run and start. I have 4 positions: off, run with lights, run no lights, and start. Do I have the wrong switch? Looks to me like I have a switch with too many positions, but it is what came with the kit (OK, so I bought it used, and the starter, solenoid, switch, wiring all came in the box).
NOW: all this aside, I still don't think my lighting coil/circuit is quite right. Probably I have 2 different problems.
Kenny, if your not busy, and bored, and want to kill some time staring at my machine and playing with it, you are more than welcome to come turn a wrench. Even if I'm not home. The barn is unlocked. My number 810-9699 if you want to call.
Smiling everyday about my new-to-me 79 Trailfire...priceless!
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
You are correct, you have the wrong switch.
There is a connection made between the battery and the lighting coil/diode that you are not getting with that 4 position switch.
This connection is required to charge the battery while running.
There is a connection made between the battery and the lighting coil/diode that you are not getting with that 4 position switch.
This connection is required to charge the battery while running.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Wow, thanks Todd. I thought it was weird. I'll get to that tomorrow. This will sound stupid, but what if I just jumpered the red and orange wire up at the switch. It would hook the two together, no matter which position 1 or 2 the switch was in for my Off--1--2--Start position switch I have now. Appreciate all the help guys!
Smiling everyday about my new-to-me 79 Trailfire...priceless!
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
Checked the wiring diagram. Decided to order a new switch. Will keep all posted. Thanks. John
Smiling everyday about my new-to-me 79 Trailfire...priceless!
Re: My tach isn't working-1979 Trailfire...help!
If you wired the chareeg curcuit together it would discharge the battery when you turned the engine off.
The correct switch is the way to. And not having to butcher up your harness is a bonus.
The correct switch is the way to. And not having to butcher up your harness is a bonus.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD