Camaro project

Mr. Deere · Post by **Mr. Deere** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:19 pm

Royal Purple is supposed to be Top of the Line. BOB

The S Man · Post by **The S Man** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:30 pm

Oh I agree with you guys. Just thought I'd throw that in as long as the conversation was on oil and the quality....

ROn

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:42 pm

All oils are deffinately not the same... but proper maintance is the most important thing. Quacker Miss-Stake will never end up in one of my engines.

I had about 350,000 miles on my Grandfathers old 73 Buick 455 on good old Valvoline. Never had the valve cover off, and it ran good when parked. It was getting due for rods and mains, but the rust was too heavy. Dad ran a 78 F150 to 303,000 on the I-6 using STP and then Valvoline.

As for MPG I do have to say that smaller engines in a given application will generally use less fuel than a larger one. Take a Classic Silverado 2500 HD for example. The old 8.1 Big block got 10 mpg with the Allison Automatic. The exact same truck with a 6.0 V-8 5/spd gets about 15mpg. Same truck with a Diesel/6 spd manual will get 20 around town and 22 highway. Same basic truck in all cases, 4 X 4's, extra cab, short boxes. I've owned all but a big block. I get to drive the company vehicle at our research facility and can check the milage on the computers. I was always surprised that my old 6.0 gaser 50% beter than the big block on fuel while my Diesel is twice as good. Could be why we dropped the 8.1 for the new 07's.

Since the required road hp is about the same for a given truck, it's the engines 'turn down' or ability to make power efficently under low load that really effects milage, aside from driving style. A manual tranny can buy you a few MPG also as they are more efficent than an automatic.

A smaller engine can make the 20-30 hp a truck needs to go cruise on level ground more efficently than a larger motor. In the 1/2 ton truck size, the 4800 V-8 manual combination averaged 22-24 highway, while in the same truck the 5.3/auto got about 18 mpg highway.

But, given the choice of MPG or power, most americans choose the larger motor for more performance. Only the Diesel truck owners are willing to pay for power and milage. There is a point of diminshing returns however where too small of a motor will be overtaxed to move a given load.

In the case of Paul Camero, the V-6 would move the car just fine, and get better milage than the V-8. But, the newer V-8 Camero/Vettes with the 6 spd manual are pretty easy on fuel if you can keep your foot out of it. I think a 400+ hp Vette is rated for 28 hwy, about the same as Cari's 2.0 Mazda. Aero has a bit to do with it too...

Just my 2 cents.

-Rainville

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:55 pm

Back in '76, my now brother in-law bought himself a brand new Camaro RS, 350 V8, 4 speed. The problem was it was so much fun listening to that Q-Jet howl, that you just couldn't keep your foot out of the gas!

The V-6 just won't give you that kind of entertainment

However, my last two daily driver cars have been V-6s, and I have no complaints.

Danzig · Post by **Danzig** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:07 pm

Remember guys.....this car is going to my daughter. Who turns 16 next May 12.

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:47 pm

That's a good point.

Not to be a wet blanket, but keep in mind how pissed you'll be when she wrecks it.

Mr. Deere · Post by **Mr. Deere** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:35 pm

DAMN Shes Lucky. My driver which is my MOMS is an ISUZU TROOPER. AHHHH. 3.5 V-6 DOHC 24 Valve. it reds at 4500 FUN. A kid at school as a V6 Camaro its a 96 he has Flowmasters on it but its not a V-8. Also another kid has an 80s I-Roc NICE. BOB

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:21 am

one point joe raised but didnt quite go into is the hp torgue curve for any given engine.
every engine has a peak rpm hp and torgue curve where it runs properly and therefore uses less fuel.

for example if your running a car with 4.10 gears and puny tires it will use LOADS of gas but also go through tires quick verses same car with 2.2 gears and 275/60 r 15 will also uses alot of gas. this is because the gears and tires under or over stress the engine.

when swapping engines from one vehicle to another always keep gears and tire size in mind.

for the record a manny has about 99.9 slip between engine and tranny verses a normal automatic which has about 60 slip but a lock up torgue converter will net you 98.9 slip. so people who claim to get good gas milage because its a manny can go stuff themselves.

in the final it doesnt matter what engine or drivetrain a car has its more the driver than anything else. If your daughter is actually interested in the car helps out fixing it and not just cleaning it then she may actually take care of it.. If on the other hand she hasnt a clue about cars it will most probably get wrecked at some point. people who just drive a car wreck cars. People who can actually fix thier car take care of them..

Mr. Deere · Post by **Mr. Deere** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:10 pm

You Forgot also people who drive THEIR PARENTS CARS take car of them too.

BOB

Post by **WinnipegStPaul9** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:39 pm

Hey Rodimus......would a 4.10 rear gear be 4.56 in Canada? What is the exchange rate on ratios?

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:26 pm

sadly no it would still be a 4.10 rate

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:26 pm

Miss Rodmus,

Since I don't feel like "stuffing myself", I will instead expain my point on manual trannys. Facts are that a manual tranny consumes less power than an automatic. There is more to it than slip or stall of the converter. For example, you are still turning a hydraulic pump on the automatic, and all slush-boxes have tranny cooler to disspate heat from the oil. This heat is caused by adding power to the oil by pumping, valving and friction. This power came from the motors crankshaft.

Manual trannys do not typically use oil coolers unless used for racing. My 300 hp 520 ft-lb Diesel with a 6 speed manual does not have a tranny cooler in it. This is because a good manual is about 95 to 98% efficent at power in vs. power out. It can dissipate any heat build up through the case only.

Early TH 400's (3 spd HD Auto) consumed 45 hp just operate itself, while newer automatics are far better with lock-up converters. With a 250 hp 455 smogger in front of it, you would only net 205 hp to the rear axle. So, Guys with the exact same truck as mine except with the Allision Automatic get 3 to 4 mpg LESS than I do on the highway with the same engine, axle gear ratio and tire size.

Fact is the most effient powertrain available today is not a gas-electric (parallel) hybrid, it's a diesel with a manual tranny. A TDI Jetta creams a Prius in milage, and its larger and heavier. Only a Hydrogen Fuel Cell is more effient than that.

There are many variable to consider calulating a vehicles milage aside from torque and HP curves. A motor is generally most efficient at its torque peak, but newer V-8's don't make peak torque until 4,000 rpms or so, but run 1,800 rpm on the highway. Fuel control, air flow (check out the newer V-8 heads vs 70's), throttle positon, EGR flow, parastic loss, MAP, etc all effect milage. Efficency at a given power level is as important as where you are on the torque curve. With modern electronics and fuel control, engines can make efficent torque at a low RPM while still making full power at 5 to 6,000 rpms or more.

-Rainville <_<

The S Man · Post by **The S Man** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:56 pm

DING,DING!!!! OK GUYS BACK TO YOUR CORNERS, ROUND 3 WILL BE COMING UP

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:15 pm

i could argue many points on joes statement. But i wont, dont see the need for it.

at this point i am curious as to what engine did originally come with car and what happened to it?

Mr. Deere · Post by **Mr. Deere** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:35 am

Hey i know this is a little late but I though all you QUAKER HATERS would like to see this for yourselves. I cant find the link but anyways I saw a commercial and it was a Ferrari and they said they Recommend Quaker state in all there cars. BOB