A real conundrum!

speedy295 · Post by **speedy295** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:58 pm

Joe, Snostuff lists the cdi for a spitfire, fitting virtually every arctic cat with a suzuki untill 1978. These have quite an oddball setup thats slightly different from most other sleds. The stator might be differen't, but if it is its purely mechanical. Same as the ignition coil.

I can see that the original cdi might have had a slightly different timing curve than the cat version ( allthough I highly doubt it), but it has to be the same circuit to work with both stators. And as best as I can tell it was a stator problem.

As I had stated in a previous post, simply putting a timing light on the sled would instantly tell if igniton is to blame. Mine erractically flashed the timing light, in sync with the eratic idle. To me it seemed as if it was stting on a 1500rpm rev limiter. I have found 5 other cases of this, in each time they did ,as did I, everything imaginable except replace the stator.

Joe, can you take a few measurments off your kohler stator for me? The diameter of the coils, and the resistances of the two ignition coils. I found 4 nos ones, and I am going to by one if it will fit my eltigre.

Also I am sorry for the attitude, but it is slightly frustrating when I am probably the only one on this board with experience with the exact problem. This isn't a fuel or mechanical problem, it is ignition related.

TASKY · Post by **TASKY** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:23 pm

I think chevyster is back as speedy295.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:53 pm

I had the exact same problem two weeks ago. Turned out to be a leaking fuel line. It looks like you definitely have eliminated that issue. I also have that Mikuni Butterfly carb on my 79 Spit, if anyone knows where to get parts for one of those, I'd sure appreciate the tip. The main jet is jammed and it won't make full power, like to get that fixed... Good luck on the ol' spit, I love mine (I think even more then my girls love the spit, who it was originally intended for...)

speedy295 · Post by **speedy295** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:50 am

Hawkeye, those mikuni butterflys were also used on arctic cat jags. Somewhere around 76-80 I think. I bet it should be identicle, the jag was a 340fa.

JDT · Post by **JDT** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:12 am

Also AC Trailcats used them. 79-80

speedy295 · Post by **speedy295** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:50 am

So did some years panteras...but a 340fa jag would be the closest application to the 340f/a in a spitfire...not a 440 or 500.

JDT · Post by **JDT** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:18 am

Trail Cat 80 were both 340 and 440. 79 was 340 only and 81 was 440 only.

All Panteras except the 75 Kawasaki Models ran Mikunis.

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:34 am

Guys,

I had nice chat with Forrest last night about this sled. I will add a few more facts to the story so maybe we can come up with a solution.

First, it's only running on one side, I think it was the PTO cylinder. They pulled a running Spit into the shop and pulled it's carb and installed it onto this one, no help.

Raw fuel pours out the exhaust. It does have a NEW CDI box. It has bright spark on both sides. But, as Forrest said, it will only idle and not rev up. They Ohm'ed the stator, and the values look good.

Some of guys working on this include a former Deere sled (and current Cat) Dealers mechanic, a sled shop owner, and such.

Since it has fuel, spark and compression, I think there is some sort of timing issue caused by the ignition or crank 'slip'...

Any more ideas?
-Rainville

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:25 am

Thanks guys for all the other sleds to watch for. I have a Mikuni round slide coming off an 77 Jag 3000 (also a 340 F/A), going to try this one so the girls can race in a local radar run on the 24th. I'll throw the butterfly back on for the Horicon show if I can make it or leave the round on their because it looks like in 79, JD switched from the round to the butterfly at some point through the production run. Meanwhile, I'll continue to watch ebay for all these other sleds. I sure hope you guys get that spit running!

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:01 pm

mag side has the impulse line for fuel pump. Raw gas pouring out of exhaust. Still sounds like a bad fuel pump to me.

Post by **guitardude081** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:25 pm

I just kind of skimmed this topic, but here's my $.02. A lot of times when it seems like an ignition problem, you want to start at the source i.e. ohm out stator, then output test CDI, and then ohm out or output test sec. ign. coil and finally ohm out spark plug caps (NGK LB05EZ is roughly 1500 to 2000 ohms per the A/C ZR manual.) It looks like you've gone through this already. If all is good, something much worse could be rearing it's ugly head. A lot of times an out of phase crankshaft will act like an ignition problem. Excuse my ignorance if this has already been covered. Also, even w/ good compression a crank seal could be bad. A pressure test could be in order. Welcome back RP!
~Jack

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Hey Jack,

The motor does have new crank seals and gaskets. I also suggested they check the fuel pump since the carb was cleared.

I did suggest that they check in phase of the crank if the pull it all the way down, and a pressure leakdown test before pulling it apart.

Keep the suggestions coming for Forrest, he is watching this thread from collage.

-Rainville

augie · Post by **augie** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:36 pm

just some more suggestions, maybe check the little rubber seal at the bottom of the choke plunger. disconnect all kill switches from ign. sounds simple but it eliminates simple problems.

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:20 pm

I just wanted to point out that in diagnosing engine problems over the web, we often seem to run into a situation where we don't get all the information from the owner.

Thus there is no reason for anyone to be put off by someone not taking their advice.

Add your ideas and experiences, ask the owner questions to tease the needed info from them, and then it is up to them to do the wrenching.

speedy295 · Post by **speedy295** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm

Did you put a timing light on ityet? My eltigre did excatly what his is doing. It poured raw gas out the exhaust. It had wonderful hot sparks even with fouled gas soaked plugs. But when you put a timing light on it, the flashing was erratic and went with the idle. My stator did test out ok.