Since Haydays weekend is the start of the snowmobile season, I have been giving some thought about what sled setup will make the Liquifire (first or second gen.)the most sled it can be in the Vintage CC racing this winter. Rules will differ from race to race but the Red Lake Vintage class has the rules posted so that gives one something to go by. So if money was no object what would you do to your sled or if you were a mechanic for the race?

These are a few of my ideas. Have heard that Camoplast has made their single ply track in a 15 x 121 and a 2.56 pitch this year (rail center distance is the same too I have read). That track and the CC Deere skid would add some speed and travel to the first gen LF. I believe race rules allow the use of different skid in a sled, as long as it was offered to the public in the same model year. Modern clutching is allowed but not the overdrive setup. So maybe a comet primary and arctic secondary? What gas can setup would you use in the pit area to quick fill a fuel tank?

Thought I would add pic to this post of what Rainville and the rest will ride in. After your body starts hurting, finger tips cold and the right foot too hot, the top of the road looks real inviting and fast! Can you spell DISQUALIFICATION?

Was this picture taken today Keith Imagine how cold it'll be in January.......

Cool topic Keith! Kenny and I are preping an 80 (me) and 81 (Ken) Liquifire for the event. We have formulated a plan, and are working toward getting our racers and a back up / practice sled ready. I will share some of what we are up to while attempting to keep my sled as much Deere as possable.

Although any track is OK and a single ply camosplast with about a 1" lug would be great, you have to use the stock rear skid. The rules are open on shocks at least, and thanks to some upfront work from the Watersboy, we have a nice set of remote reservior FOX shocks refit for our rear skids. I have considered the Camo track, but it is 121" long vs. Deere's 116, and the drive lugs are 2.52" (I think) vs. Deere's 3.29 on the Gen II LF. I did purchase a new Kimpex track as my main plan, but I am considering my options.

Brakes are another area can use some updating. With Kenny's machining help, we are attempting to adapt an entire Cat Willwood set up to the stock Deere case, but it will be pinching the HD Dator disk. Kenny has successfully adapted a K-H caliper to a Deere chain case using a Willwood master cylinder, so that is our back up plan. 88-92 Polaris calipers fit to, but I want a twin piston unit to pinch the rotor, not sqeeze the side of the chain case.

I am going to use Cat bars, controlls and throttle cable from their SnoCross sleds. Aluminum throttle blocks, straight bars and cables that can take a beating sound good to me. The throttle cable I am planning to use fits the 2000-03 Cat Z-440 Sno Pro's. That sled had 34mm round slide carbs and oil injection.

The motor is being worked on now. Cranks will go to Jermome, new pistons and nicasiled jugs will be used with chrome rings (I hope). Cat drive and roller driven clutches will be used, probably with a Cat jackshaft. Chassis will be split and all new steel rivits used to put it back together after the welds are inspected and redone to race spec.

My rear skid will use an many reinforced NOS parts as I can through at it, including rails, front arm, new idlers, etc.

And Don, I am VERY concerned about the cold. Planning to use either hand gards, guantless or handle bar bags to keep my hands from getting frost bite, even with the Cat bar warmers...

So what do you guys have going on?
-Rainville

In regards to the shock set up. Do we have to use the stock aluminum cross-over shaft with our rear shock, or can we use a longer shock that ties in with the tabs that would be used on a trailfire? I have a larger diameter oil shock with an extended length of 14-15" that has worked awesome for the last few seasons in my 80 liquifire but I am not using the stock aluminum shock/cross-over shaft. Am i legal? Thanks Luke.

Joe,

Sleds really run good when it gets below zero. Helmet/goggle air leaks and cold body parts needed to be figured out as they are as important as the sled. I never have had frostbite riding sleds but did the duct tape below the eyes all the time and two facemasks when very cold. Then the goggles say clear, even at the stops. Noticed in photos from the Grafton ND (a short race just before the Red Lake I-500) race last winter (very cold weekend) the winner from Alaska wore gantlets. Some ride around here with gantlets and just leather gloves underneath. Hang on to the bars better with thinner gloves. Least that is the way for me. Everyone has a method. Remember temps could be 30 above or 30 below.

I consider ditch racing a drag race between approaches. Then at the approach, a snow cross jump on a track you have never been on before, and then try to land with some control and speed so you can do it all over again in the next half mile. The guys that hit them fast all the time will crash at some point (except maybe a Nelson or Karpik in the day) but I have heard of them being knocked silly after some landings too.

Bet Don has lots to add on this subject. Oh and by the way, that photo is from last winter but we did have our first light frost a few days back......

kb

Wow Keith, a drag race between approaches. That is fantastic and I never once thought about that. It's so true though. That said my approach to approaches is probably what kept me from being a contender. I feel like when you're in the air, you're losing time and the traction sucks. Instead I would watch upcoming approaches and try to figure out a way to get by them by going roadside or fenceside. I felt that even if I had to slow down a little I was still moving.. Again, you never saw me on the podium so I guess jumping them might have been faster. Cross country racing did teach me a driving technique that I still use today including driving my ambulance. I don't worry about what's directly in front of me but what's ahead of me further down the road. If my eyes concentrate on what's coming up I don't need to spend time watching directly in front of me, only for changes.

Finally, I have always considered myself lucky in that I don't really get cold. Last year at the HOF ride was the first time I've ever used handlebar heaters. While they were nice, I've never raced with them. I raced, and still ride with, an open face helmet. A face mask, duct tape and goggles pretty much take care of my needs. One thing I miss today is the Scorpion gloves with gauntlets that I raced with. God I loved those gloves and love to have another pair.

Thanks again allowing me to remember those days.

DA

DOY: The shock rules are open, so you should have no problem attaching the lower mount to the front arm and not using the stock lower shaft. You can't change the travel, but you can reinforce the arms and rails as desired.

Kieth,

Thanks for the tips! I really like my SnoCross gloves, but I got frost bite wearing them between the HOF induction banquet and the Rustic Manor back in 08. The 45 minute traffic stop did not help much either at -20 F. Also got it on my face, was not happy, and do not care to replete either the ticket or the bite, LOL! Kenny and I are planning to change my practice track to include a "road approach" type jump to practice on. All you can do is try to be prepared and hope to be lucky.

-Joe

if using the 80 liquifire suspension deere had a deep snow kit which was the trailfire/sportfire long suspension arm with wheels on like the 80 liquifire arm. you also moved the pivot point of the rear arm forward (look in a 82-84 liquifire theres an extra hole in the steel plate not drilled for this kit) i also put the trailfire upper idler in my 80-82 liquifires and it made a pretty good improvement. youll get more ski lift, and less drag which = more speed. also run mix gas the unmixed fuel will wash the oil from the chrome cylinder and the motor gradually becomes weaker over time. make sure skis springs are in rear hole. tighten springs on front of suspension to tightest position. rear to personal taste. this is how id set one up you will have to fine tune it from there.

Ted,

Good points, but I am not sure if adding the longer Trail/Sport type rear arm for the Deep Snow Kit is legal. If it was offered by 1981 we should be able to use it, but technically if it was offered starting in 82 we can't. Waters and I just had this same conversation this weekend. I don't think changing idlers around is an issue because it doesn't change travel or geometry either.

I am going use NOS springs where I can, but not sure I have rears. The stiffer shock will also help that out and should prevent hard bottoming out.

I am going to keep the oil injection, but ditch the chrome bores for Nicasil. It holds the oil much better that chrome, but I agree with your concern. I like the injection as it lubes the center bearings and has passages for the top rod too.

Thanks,
-Joe

-Joe. We run chrome rings on nicasil. It is hard to break the rings in. I assume you are using US Chrome or Millenium to do them. Tell them to finish it with the roughest hone they have the same one they finish the nicasil Pro-Stock 1000 motors with. Peter

Handle bar heater, & duct tape work nice when it's below 0

Now that I have a fully overhauled engine that runs, I have a question regarding suspension. I'm running stock liquifire suspension basically, (new springs and larger diameter shock) but was thinking of adding the trailfire upper idler shaft and wheels to give the top of the track some more support and to take tension off of the upper shock mount hoop that the track normal rides on. I was going to keep the stock liquifire rear arm with the two idler wheel as well. Legal or not legal?

Well deere of the year you ask an interesting question. The Red Lake rules are below for skids. AS I READ IT, unless you have those upper track support wheels and shaft listed in the LF parts book or a LF race manual as a OEM mod for the sled and year your running, no would be my guess. Remember more wheels equals more friction too. If I remember right, Nelson removed all the skid frame hi-fax wheels from is I-500 Dator on the last day run to Winnipeg as they knew snow conditions were good. I really don't think anyone is going to excited about details like that but if a protest was filed I suppose they would have to ask for documentation from the day.

Just my thoughts...

keith



1) Suspension must be OEM for the make and model. No material substitution allowed.
2) Rails may not be bent or shortened.
3) Wheels may be added or removed along with mounting brackets from an OEM wheel kit.
4) Any hyfax allowed.
5) Any spring may be used in the rear suspension. Springs may be shortened or heated.
6) Any commercially available shocks allowed.

DOY,

Keith makes a good point, but I don't think there is a problem running the Trailfire/Sportfire upper cross shaft, as it's a pretty minor change from stock. Also, the factory deep snow kit is legal since it was available in the fall of 79.

If in doubt, contact Pat Mach of USCC Racing.

-Rainville

Thanks for the help guys.
-Luke