Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

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nick80lf
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Real Name: Nick
Location: The snow free zone of Ohio

Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by nick80lf »

I just loved Valdi’s comment in One Lunger’s and thought it’s the perfect title for this post. Honestly, my son loves to help wrench on just about anything whenever he can and I try to involve him as much as possible.

Over the last few years my son "Larry" has enjoyed tagging along to a few vintage snowmobile shows. To start, his name really isn’t Larry, but we’ll call him that thanks to Deerekid9. A year or so ago I decided that I'd keep an eye out for one of the direct drive Deere models and turn it into a father / son restoration project for us. I was sort of back and forth as to what model......decisions decisions. I really liked the idea of a Sprintfire, but thought a Spitfire might be easier to find and with the higher build numbers I wouldn't have reservations about him riding it. Well.....then one day I noticed a Facebook post from a good friend and fellow Jdsleds.com member Ed (cledussnow77). Ed was looking to downsize and one of the sleds he had for sale was an 83 Snowfire. Ed lives about 45 minutes from me so I contacted him and made arrangements to look at this sled. After looking it over I thought it would be a really good project. My biggest concern was that the carb was stuck. I speculated that vermin had made a home in the carb and it would be scrap.

Here are a few photos from when we brought the sled home.

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As soon as the sled was off the trailer the first thing that needed to be addressed was to remove the rancid fuel. This has to be the worst smelling sled that I have drug home. You could smell it sitting on the trailer with the cap down. So we drained the fuel and gave the sled a quick bath. Here's what the fuel looked like.

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And here’s a photos after the bath

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We would later discover that the engine was full of fuel and was leaking past the PTO side crank seal. This proved to be quite the garage air freshener. Anyhow, after a quickie clean job, we tried to tackle the carb. I was pretty nervous about this stuck carb problem, not being really familiar with the Snowfires, I was concerned that I may never find the correct carburetor if this one was scrap. After removing the air box we were pleased to see that it had not become a rodent hotel and further investigation revealed that a leaking inlet needle had crusted up the carburetor slide so bad that the slide was stuck. So we decided to soak the entire carb in carb cleaner.

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I know the directions on the can say to soak for 1 hour, but I tend to soak them over night, just seem to have better results. The next morning was a Sunday morning and we had a little family adventure planned so we wouldn't have much time to work on the sled. When my son went out in the morning he squeezed the throttle and came running back in the house and said "dad it's moving!!”. He had to show me so I grabbed the camera and snapped this photo.

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Now my garage doesn't always look this messy. I've had a lot on my plate recently, even though I don't like working on more than one sled at a time we have been working on all three sleds in the photo. The middle Liquifire is getting the motor freshened up and the one in the rear received new paint on the skis, new carbides, and a clutch rebuild.

So back to the Snowfire, I decided we were going to tackle this project in three phases. Get the motor running, go through the drive line, and fix the sled cosmetically. Once I was confident about the carburetor we ordered the crank seals and fuel system parts to get the motor running. Here are a few photos from the night my son removed the motor.

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Unfortunately, I wrote most of the above back in late July / early August which is when this project stalled out due to some pretty serious medical issues with several family members. The worst resulted in Larry losing his Grandmother. We are just now getting back into this project and finally tore the engine down this weekend. Of course I forgot to take photos of the dis-assembly of the motor, but I’ll try my best to keep this updated. More than likely the progress will be really slow.
80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
DeereKid9
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Real Name: Bob Amber
Location: Churubusco Indiana

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by DeereKid9 »

Nice job Nick and Larry. :)
Always remember-Any parts leftover is money in your pocket.
1976 Liquidator - I 500 raced by Jim Zimmer
1980 Spitfire
1982 Liquifire-Last sled my son helped me work on. He did most of the motor work.
1984 Trailfire
2007 Ski Doo GSX 500SS
sledhead16
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Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:39 pm
Real Name: Allan Campbell
Location: Saint Peter MN

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by sledhead16 »

Thats probably one of the better posts in a while! Great story, fun to read and look at!
1975 340/s Speed Run Sled
1975 340/s I500 #161
1980 Liquifire SN# 4995 From WA Speed Run Sled
1980 Liquifire SN# 4996 From MN
1983 Sportfire
1984 Liquifire Deep Snow Tunnel 4/6 motor
1984 Sprintfire (2)

***Duelling Deere Garage***
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JDGuy
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Real Name: Guy
Location: SE Michigan

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by JDGuy »

Nick: Great story. I started riding with my son when he was about "Larry's" age. Then we turned him loose on my Dad's 76 LF. He nearly went over a river bank at full speed, but got it turned before the impeding splash down. After that his was limited to a much slower Cyclone for a while. Later on I could not keep up with him whatever he was riding, youth has no fear. Enjoy the moment, it doesn't last long, except maybe he will take you riding in your old age. Know that you may be inflicting him with curse of old sleds!!

Guy
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skoalmint
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Location: Circleville Oh

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by skoalmint »

Nice story Nick ,keep the pics coming. Keep him into the sleds and it might just keep him outta other stuff in life as well :clap: . Brock
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nick80lf
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Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by nick80lf »

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement.

It occurred to me that I could share a little bit about the clutch removal and crank seals. Normally I'm all about getting the correct tool for the job. However, when I was looking for the puller for the 94C. I kept thinking most of these are nothing more than a bolt and a pin. Larry and I ventured over to the local Cat dealer one Saturday and attempted to order a puller for the 94C. After being quoted almost $60 for the puller I decided to scrap that idea and swung by the hardware store to pick up the correct size bolt. I had intentions on making the pin but as I sat there this nagging voice in the back of my head kept saying "if you mess up the end of the crank you'll be pissed at yourself". Then I thought I'd try the grease / oil trick that has never really worked for me in the past. The only other time I've attempted this the only thing this process did was make a huge mess. This time I reached for the bottle of soapy water that I keep on the workbench for the numerous flat tires my wife brings home for me to fix. So we tipped the sled sort of on it's side with something under the handlebar to help preserve the body. Then squirted some soapy water into the center of the clutch stopping about 3/4" of an inch from the top so we'd have some good thread engagement. Then I proceeded to drive the Teflon tape wrapped bolt home with the impact on the highest setting. To my surprise it let out a crack. Larry and I both jumped (I thought I broke the clutch), then once I realized that the clutch was off without damage I think I said something to Larry like......"I think it broke my thumb". I'm pretty sure I actually said a little more than that, but this post will be rejected if I attempt to put that in writing.

Anyway, once the clutch was off this was what we saw

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Now fast forward to today. The engine is apart and here's a view of the seals from the back side.

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This boys and girls is why everyone that has traveled down this bunny trail harps on why it is such a good idea to change crank seals.
80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
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WinnipegStPaul9
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Real Name: Don Amber
Location: Churubusco, IN

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by WinnipegStPaul9 »

This is a great story!! Thank you Nick and Larry for sharing.

DA
Feel free to check out our website www.buscobullet.com for restorations or parts.
sledhead16
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Real Name: Allan Campbell
Location: Saint Peter MN

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by sledhead16 »

great job with the pics!
1975 340/s Speed Run Sled
1975 340/s I500 #161
1980 Liquifire SN# 4995 From WA Speed Run Sled
1980 Liquifire SN# 4996 From MN
1983 Sportfire
1984 Liquifire Deep Snow Tunnel 4/6 motor
1984 Sprintfire (2)

***Duelling Deere Garage***
buckeyetrailfire
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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:26 pm
Real Name: Mark Elliott
Location: Springboro Ohio

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by buckeyetrailfire »

Love the story and pictures keep us updated .

mark
1979 Trailfire 440
1980 Trailfire 340
1980 sportfire
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nick80lf
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Real Name: Nick
Location: The snow free zone of Ohio

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by nick80lf »

Well Larry and I have made a little progress since the last episode. A few weeks ago they were calling for 4" of snow around here and I decided it was time for the Snowfire to vacate my side of the garage. Why you might ask.....I really hate scraping windows and it was time for my truck to return to the garage. Fortunately, there was plenty of room in the new shop for the Snowfire but.......the shop has a minor issue that will become obvious in a few minutes.

So the first task that I gave Larry was to remove the seat so we could store it in a safe location to prevent it from becoming a chew toy for vermin. However, I just had to play a nasty trick on Larry and handed him the ratchet to remove the seat.

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Now many of you will recognize that a ratchet is typically not the correct tool to remove a seat and in this case the tried and true pry bar method turned out to be a lot more productive.

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Once the seat was off we discovered that the board is actually in better shape than we expected. The only rotted area was around the bolt holes. We should be able to use the old board as a pattern to make a new one when that time comes.

Now that the seat was removed Larry started to roll the Snowfire to the shop.

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He was really struggling and this is about all the farther he made it before he need help. Also the astute observer will notice a few things wrong in this photo namely there's no driveway going to that building, that building doesn't appear to have a floor, and there's about a 12" gap at the rear. Needless to say this shop thing hasn't went as planned and we'll leave it at that.

Trying to make the best of this I acquired a few pallets for Larry to set the Snowfire on for the winter.

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Now that the chassis is tucked away for a little while we turned our attention to the engine. We had been working on cleaning up the engine parts and started reassembly of the engine today.
Larry started by lubing up the new crank seals and installing them on the crankshaft

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Then he dropped the crank in.

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It was at this point that Mom made him quit for a few hours to have a Christmas photo taken with his sisters. While that was happening dad doubled checked the crankshaft end play to make sure it was in spec.
When Larry returned he applied Yamabond to the lower case half and installed it.

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Then torqued the bolts to spec

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The final project for the evening was installing the coil's

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Overall the motor is in fairly good shape. The PTO piston skirt has some minor scuffing. I originally intended for this to be a reseal, but Larry talked me into ordering new pistons from New Breed Parts tonight. When the parts arrive we'll finish the top end of the motor.
80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
sledhead16
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Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:39 pm
Real Name: Allan Campbell
Location: Saint Peter MN

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by sledhead16 »

Keep up the learning and good work Larry!!!
1975 340/s Speed Run Sled
1975 340/s I500 #161
1980 Liquifire SN# 4995 From WA Speed Run Sled
1980 Liquifire SN# 4996 From MN
1983 Sportfire
1984 Liquifire Deep Snow Tunnel 4/6 motor
1984 Sprintfire (2)

***Duelling Deere Garage***
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nick80lf
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Real Name: Nick
Location: The snow free zone of Ohio

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by nick80lf »

Here's the latest on "project keeping Larry out of the XBox".

Over the holiday we made a fair amount of progress. One thing that we hadn't addressed was lapping the heads and cylinders. So while we were waiting for parts to show up we tackled this project. Here Larry is tryin out the granite surface plate. I have to be honest here, he's seen me do this before but was having issues keeping the parts flat on the surface plate so I took over to make sure we didn't have an issue.

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On the other hand, fairly early on he asked "Dad, do you want me to get the bar you use to check these?" So that seemed like a good thing to me. At least he knows that the goal is to have them flat and he knows how to check them. Here he is checking things over.

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The following day we decided to take off and stuff our self with Turkey. Fortunately neither of us are really into the the Black Friday thing so we were hoping that the mail lady was going to come bearing gifts. Thanks to New Breed Parts super speedy shipping we were in luck. The parts we had ordered late Sunday night arrived (not bad for a holiday week, thanks Matt). We measured everything up and then started assembly.

I told Larry that I'd assemble the Mag side while he watched, then it would be his turn at bat with the PTO side. During this time I was explaining to Larry about the importance of the arrow on the piston and how the ring end gaps needed to be in a specific spot. Then it hit me....things didn't look right here. After a few minutes comparing the OEM ART pistons to the new pistons I was pretty sure the arrow had been engraved incorrectly on the pistons. Here's a photo for comparison. The black lines indicate the location of the ring pins.

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I'm pretty sure Larry was total confused by this. I know I was for a few minutes. Even though everything looked like it should I just had an uneasy feeling seeing the arrow pointed at the intake, but we continued on. Here's Larry installing rings, lubing up the piston pin and getting ready to install the new slug on the rod.

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Once we placed the heads on the cylinders we called it a night without torquing things down. Later that night I sent Matt a message wondering if anyone else had noticed this and he checked two pistons that he had and noticed that the arrows were pointing in different directions. With this behind us we proceeded to bolt on the intake and exhaust on the following day.

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Then the heads

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At this point we installed the flywheel, recoil housing, ignition coil. Here's a picture of Larry with his motor pretty much finished.

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The plan is to still test fire the motor before working on the chassis.

Larry also wanted me to ask if anyone had a set of NOS or good used fin dampeners for his motor?
80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
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nick80lf
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Real Name: Nick
Location: The snow free zone of Ohio

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by nick80lf »

Well, this weekend we managed to test fire the motor. We put the motor back in the chassis just for ease of mounting. The chassis still needs work but it functioned to hold the motor and also allowed us to quickly see that someone fed the "Electrical Mogwai" after midnight.

Here's a video of Larry starting his sled for the first time.



Just for the record, this was a hot start, and we really didn't put any effort into tuning the carburetor.

Once the motor was warmed up and the heads re-torqued, the motor and rear suspension were removed. Here's where things get weird. The aluminum shafts came out without too much fuss. The steel shaft on the other hand needed a little persuasion, but eventually gave up the fight with a little bit of heat.

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The best part of this weekends adventure happened today at a community Christmas party. Larry had to show his friends the video of him starting his sled.
Last edited by nick80lf on Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
JDT
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Real Name: Todd
Location: Milbank South Dakota

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by JDT »

Way to go guys. :letitsnow: :clap: :dance:
I noticed the fire extingisher setting close by. :pray:
Todd Schrupp

Milbank SD
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nick80lf
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Real Name: Nick
Location: The snow free zone of Ohio

Re: Keeping Larry out of the XBOX

Post by nick80lf »

Yep....but you didn't see the big fire extinguisher next to me.....lol. The little one was for Larry.

I've never had an issue , but every year I seem to hear about someone that set their garage on fire working on a snowmobile. This typically coincides with the first big snow.

Guess I'm paranoid.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
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