ccw engine

kuby · Post by **kuby** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:51 pm

I got a 1973 ccw engine with reed valve induction. it's off an old Jac Trac.

I?m looking for help to find out what wires are what, coming out of the engine.

I got 5 wires coming out of the stator area:
1 red wire
2 blue wires
2 white wires

From what I see, the sled has 2 external coils and running lights (headlight, tail light, side lights) it also has a key. that's it for electrical.

Any advice on how to find out where to hook up the wires? Any tests?

All the old manuals are not giving me any info.

thanks in advance,

kuby

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:10 pm

This link shows the wiring for a '73 john Deere with points. If your engine has points, it should be similiar. Remove the flywheel and compare the wiring to yours. The color code may be different but you should see where the wires go.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/jdsleds/wiring/73wiring.jpg

kuby · Post by **kuby** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:57 am

after closer inspection, i must be old because i'm blind.

i got

1 red
1 white
1 yellow
2 blue

that schmatic is sure a lot more complicated then what i have. i got 2 coils, a key and light (headlight, side lights, and tail light). no brake, no kill, no dimmers, no regulator.

i think i can match them up. is there any quick way to check with a multi-meter to see if i'm on the right page?

it looks like from the schematic i should use my yellow for their brown.
and use my 2 blues for their yellow.

any thoughts?

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:31 pm

Did you remove the flywheel. Inside you will find 3 internal coils. 2 of the coils will be the same and the other different. With a muti-meter set for resistance or continuity, check the 2 blues wires to each other. If they ohm out together, I think they are for lights. Follow the other wires to the external coils. Each external coil feed wire will be a different color. The wire left should be the ground wire. If you check that wire to ground, the meter will prove it.

JDFanPa · Post by **JDFanPa** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:49 am

Like Harley said most likely the 2 blue are for lights red white should be coils and that would leave the yellow as a ground. I would really check the way harley said since youve got some strange colors there. If your in a hurry to get it started Its a fairly safe bet that the red/white are the coils though. You really should have a voltage reg also when they are bad on a deere they burn out all the lights.

kuby · Post by **kuby** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:54 am

thanks for the help. it's cooler outside, so i'll have to check.

oh ya, if i hook my volt meter up to the red or white wire and pull the starter. should i be be getting 12 volts while i'm pulling? would that also tell me if my points are bad?

thanks again

kuby

JDFanPa · Post by **JDFanPa** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:01 am

you will get power outa the red white I usally just use a test light here easier to see when pulling the thing over. Power there is good it would mean the source coil is putting out. However doesnt mean the points are making/breaking contact and it doesnt mean it will have spark either. The points need to make/break contact for the ignition coil to fire.

kuby · Post by **kuby** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:23 am

thanks again for the help.

i looked at it again last night and this is how it is wired.

red -ignition coil plus lights
white-ignition coil plus lights
yellow-ground
2 blues not used

i took an old run light and hook up the wires; 1 to white wire, 1 to yellow, pulled a couple of times real bright light (bulb is a 1157).

did the same with the red wire, same results

after looking at the wire diagram from the schematic you posted, it shows that the headlight should be hooked up to the 2 blue wires. so i hooked up my 2 blue wires to my test light and gave her a few pulls. the light when on but not as bright as above.

so now i'm confused, should i leave it the way it is wired (not using the 2 blue wires)? am i going to burn the lights out, or am i draining power from the coils? or should i use the 2 blue wires? if i do, will i have a dim light?

forgot to mention, my wires were all cut and jerry rigged coming out of the engine. it looks as if it is not factory.

monsoon · Post by **monsoon** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:03 pm

Did you try connecting one of the wires from your test light to a blue wire and the other to the yellow (ground) wire?

You shouldn't connect the light to the red or white wires, because you will draw power from your ignition system and your spark probably won't be as good.

there are 3 coils under the flywheel 2 smaller ones, which are the ignition coils, one connected to the red wire and the other to the white. The third one is the accessory/lighting coil, which has the 2 blue wires coming from it. I'm not sure if there is any difference between the 2 blue wires, I think one may be connected to less turns which would make it a lower voltage output, maybe someone else could shed some light on this.

So lets say one blue wire puts out 7v and the other 12v, if you connected each of the wires from the test light to one blue wire, the light would only get 5v. But if you connected the 12v blue wire to one of the light's wires and the other to ground , the light would get 12v.

Hope this helps

Matt

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:16 pm

At this point, remove the flywheel and identify the colors of the wires at each of the coils. As stated earlier, the 2 similiar internal coils are for the ignition. The other one is for lighting only.

kuby · Post by **kuby** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:10 pm

finally gave up and pulled the cover. there are 2 coils

red coming out of one side of the main coil
white coming out of the other side of the main coil

the other coil has 2 blue and 1 yellow wire

the yellow looks to be the ground.

red and white are ok i am getting spark, just got to figure out which
wire with which external coil.

when i tried my test light i hooked it up to 1 blue and 1 yellow, pulled it a few times, no light.

then i stuck the light to the blue wires 1side of the bulb to 1 blue and the other side to the blue. pulled it and i got light (not as bright as using one the red or white)

i did notice that the lights are grounded to the chasis. the motor is not grounded because it is on rubber motor mounts

but why did my test light not work when hooked up to 1 yellow(ground) and one blue(power) off the engine.

also, do i oil the little felt pad inside the fly wheel

the fly wheel says made by fuji for ccw.

thanks

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:08 pm

........the other coil has 2 blue and 1 yellow wire......

Test the 2 blue wires with a ohm meter. It should be a low number.
Test the yellow wire to ground, it should read 0 or show a continuity.

........but why did my test light not work when hooked up to 1 yellow(ground) and one blue(power) off the engine........

The lighting circuit is alternating current. If you follow one of the blue wires in the main harness, it is grounded. The lighting circuit is not completed between the blue and the yellow. The yellow wire grounds the coils to the engine case. (I think)

To figure out where the red wire and white wire go, open up one set of points and see which spark plug drops out or fails to spark. Then rotate the engine watching the good set of points just start to open and stop. Look inside the spark plug holes and see which piston is at the top of the cylinder. The wire that sparked goes to that cylinder with the piston at the top.

......also, do i oil the little felt pad inside the fly wheel....

No, use a very tiny amount of grease on the cam lobe.

JDFanPa · Post by **JDFanPa** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:05 am

The white wire feeds the coil that goes to the flywheel side cylinder the red to the other.

Now with the lighting coil and your test light when you have it hooked in like it should be it isnt going to light up real bright for 1 these old sled motors dont put out alot of juice and the low rpms ov just pulling the recoil wont give much light of course this will change when its actually running. You can actually see the headlight itself get brighter as you bring the rpms off idle with these old motors. Now the 2 power lighting wires also produce a high and lower current the higher being for the headlamp lower being for the tailight/dashlight circuit so it is possible actually that just pulling this over with a test light hooked to the lower power wire it might not light up.

You might want to try and get this running to check these wire since you have the ignition side worked out.

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:07 am

so far harley has got most of it right you just missed one thing this particular engine being a 440/21 has a 6 volt electrical coil for lights. that is why they are color coded blue and not yellow like a 12v would be. the "yellow " wire is probably a faded green wire that ccw uses for grounds. if you want to be picky and stay with a 6v system you can still buy 6 volt bulbs but it would be easier to just get a 12v coil from a ccw points system instead dennis kirk may have a few.

JDFanPa · Post by **JDFanPa** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:08 am

Also try grouning test light right to the motor on a good ground then check the blue wires I bet it will light then and hopefully 1 wire will be brighter than the other and let you know which is for headlight.