1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Technical topics related to machines powered by Kioritz/CCW & Kohler motors.
Paintdan85
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:44 pm
Real Name: Dan
Location: United states

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by Paintdan85 »

Hello Guys,

Still waiting for the new stator and CDI uni.

So I bought a CDI off this site: http://www.psep.biz/store/john_deere_sn ... _boxes.htm
Model ADKX0114322

It still haven't shipped yet, so I contacted the seller and they had to order it in for me. I asked if the manufacture was Kimpex and they said yes, well I contacted Kimpex the other day and they said they don't carry any CDI units for the 1978 Spitfire :evil: :evil: :evil: So it's probably the same as the other 2 Kimpex CDI's that I already tryied . . .


On another Note, I was tinkering with the sled again tonight and for the hell of it I removed the airbox and fired it up, idle again is fine, when opening up the throttle, I get a mist of gas shooting out of the carb like a jet with no increase of RPM's. So at first i'm thinking could it be the muffler??? (I've also checked out the muffle with compresses air and no resistance so i didn't think anything of it) So I had a new muffle for a truck sitting around and threw that on instead of the stock muffle and no difference.

So could this be a timing issue, where the gas isn't burning and getting pushed back out of the carb rather then creating vacuum and pulling it into the engine?

thanks again guys, sorry i'm not more of a 2 cycle guy!
JDT
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Real Name: Todd
Location: Milbank South Dakota

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by JDT »

Dan where are you located?
Todd Schrupp

Milbank SD
Paintdan85
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Real Name: Dan
Location: United states

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by Paintdan85 »

JDT wrote:Dan where are you located?

I wish closer to you guys in the west, Pittsburgh PA
Paintdan85
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Location: United states

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by Paintdan85 »

So I got the new magneto / stator in tonight, hooked it up . . . nothing but the same! Here is a video how I was explaining about the carb spitting out gas:
https://youtu.be/aLIwTLKaZjM

I also made my own tool to do the timing because I couldn't find one, so if the timing isn't right on, its pretty darn close!
https://youtu.be/Dljg-ddmKBo

I believe the new CDI just shipped today, I will let you guys know when I get it, any ideas why gas is jetting out of the carb when trying to throttle up? Could the carb be getting to much gas and pushing it out of the bowl?
75522
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Real Name: Chris
Location: Illinois

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by 75522 »

Just grasping at straws here... I noticed in your video that the fuel lines comes out of the gas tank, across the top side of the engine bay, beneath the carb to the fuel pump... The original routing of the fuel line is straight out of the gas tank, down underneath the engine (right underneath the stator), across and up to the fuel pump. Could the routing of the fuel line be causing the gas line to not feed gas properly? I might suggest ensuring the gas lines are not kinked at all... If the carb is starved for gas, it would make sense that it is surging thus spitting out excess gas since it may not be flowing smoothly...

Just one more thing to check...
Paintdan85
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Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by Paintdan85 »

75522 wrote:Just grasping at straws here... I noticed in your video that the fuel lines comes out of the gas tank, across the top side of the engine bay, beneath the carb to the fuel pump... The original routing of the fuel line is straight out of the gas tank, down underneath the engine (right underneath the stator), across and up to the fuel pump. Could the routing of the fuel line be causing the gas line to not feed gas properly? I might suggest ensuring the gas lines are not kinked at all... If the carb is starved for gas, it would make sense that it is surging thus spitting out excess gas since it may not be flowing smoothly...

Just one more thing to check...
I haven't checked the fuel lines yet, but I had another question, is the check valve required in the tank? Reason I'm asking is the original that way in the tank was plugged up, so I took it off and ran a new line into the tank (weighted down) without a filter. Do you think not having a check valve would be a problem?


Also I went to the store last night and bought me a timing light (never had one, never used one before) firing the engine back up today, at idle looks like the engine is running 3-4deg advanced. The service manual states to check the timing at 6000RPM's of course the engine sounds like its only hitting 800-1100RPMs at most. So I start throttling up the engine Idle is sitting around 600-800 RPM's (Guesstimating here) Slowly throttling up right around 1000-1100 RPM's just barely enough to catch the belt, the engine increase sound pauses then starts to stutter a little bit, meanwhile at idle up until it stutters the timing light keeps increasing flashing to keep up with the motor, as the motor starts stuttering, the timing light starts intermittently flashing, no gas out the back of the carb at this point, as I start throttling up more (as engine has a little hesitation) gas then starts jetting out the carb

Now keep in mind the original CDI I was using had no increase of RPM, after replacing the CDI with another bought on ebay, I now get a small increase of RPM's (again im guesstimating around 1100RPMs) enough to start opening the clutch, but not enough to grab the belt

I also bought a spark plug tester, and threw it inline with the spark plug and it would constantly blink until the engine started hesitating and would as intermittently blink, the instructions with the spark tester said ignition issues

Do you guys think it would be the CDI? I bought another and was hoping it would have been here today, but post office says Monday :cry: I bought this one:
J-D Spitfire: ADKX0114322
http://www.psep.biz/store/john_deere_sn ... _boxes.htm
75522
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Real Name: Chris
Location: Illinois

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by 75522 »

Ok... By any chance did you clean up the magnets on the flywheel? When I took everything off to replace the crankseals, I noted rust on the stator and flywheel... I used a dremel with a wire wheel, and very carefully cleaned off all the rust. Had a MUCH stronger spark when I did that... If you haven't cleaned those surfaces (the magnet and coils) then I'd suggest doing that too... Of course, then you'd have everything off and could adjust the timing just a little... 3 - 4 degrees of timing shouldn't keep it from revving up... Let me know what you find with that...

I used a kimpex CDI too, along with new plug wires & boots, and it runs great...

Did you check the plug wires/boots?
Paintdan85
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Location: United states

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by Paintdan85 »

75522 wrote:Ok... By any chance did you clean up the magnets on the flywheel? When I took everything off to replace the crankseals, I noted rust on the stator and flywheel... I used a dremel with a wire wheel, and very carefully cleaned off all the rust. Had a MUCH stronger spark when I did that... If you haven't cleaned those surfaces (the magnet and coils) then I'd suggest doing that too... Of course, then you'd have everything off and could adjust the timing just a little... 3 - 4 degrees of timing shouldn't keep it from revving up... Let me know what you find with that...

I used a kimpex CDI too, along with new plug wires & boots, and it runs great...

Did you check the plug wires/boots?

When I split the crank case, i sand blasted everything except the magneto / Stator, I'm pretty sure there is no rust on the inside of the flywheel, the next time I have it apart I could spread some light oil on the flywheel to prevent rust. As for the coil / magneto, I just replaced that with a NOS on ebay that doesn't have a lick of rust on it!

As for the timing, I've adjusted the timing 4-5 times already, even made my own tool to slide on the crankshaft with a pointer to line up the magneto to time it, but I could always retard it just a little to get it back to 0deg timing again.

I did replace the coil pack, which had new wires attached to it already, I had to pull the old plugs off the wires (screw on type) and screw them onto the next coil packs wires, I also changed the plugs twice already, I am currently using NGK BR8ES plugs
75522
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Location: Illinois

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by 75522 »

I did get a fuel line pickup for inside the tank. Don Amber from Busco Bullet will special-make one for the Spitfire. I'd definitely do that...
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nick80lf
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Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by nick80lf »

The purpose of the check valve in the fuel tank is to prevent fuel from draining back to the tank when the fuel level is below where the hose exits the tank.

The pickups are commonly available with or without the check valves (I believe Deere even still sells these). I'm pretty sure that the later sleds shipped with the non check valve type pickup. Me personally, I always use the check valve type.

https://www.newbreedparts.com/newbreed/ ... valve.html

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80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
Paintdan85
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Location: United states

Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by Paintdan85 »

Hello Guys,

Shes all up and running!!! I got the new CDI pack in today from SPI (sports parts inc.) Model 01-143-22 (other number on box: KX0114322) I hooked it up, pulled the starter and it fired up and idled fine, pushed the throttle and it revved right up and the clutch opened right up. . . SUCH a relief!!! :pray: :pray: :pray: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :lol:

I will try sending the 2 Kimpex branded CDI's with the model 01-143-22 back! what a headache they have caused!!!

Thank all of you for your time and help!

Dan
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SS440-80
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Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by SS440-80 »

Super :beers; :sled:
Sleds...
2xJOHN DEERE SPRINTFIRE 1983.
YAMAHA GP292b 1973
OCKELBO Trioman 1975
YAMAHA SRV 1982 (shrinked)
YAMAHA SRV 1990
YAMAHA SRV 1991
LYNX Rave 600ACE 2013
LYNX BOONDOCKER RE 3700 850 ETEC 2018
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nick80lf
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Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by nick80lf »

That's great news.

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80 Liquifire (purchased 1996 ~ Running)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2010 ~ Running....Now)
80 Liquifire (purchased 2011 ~ Not running - I officially have a problem now)
83 Snowfire (purchased 2014 father/son restoration project)
78 Spitfire ~ sold (should have been shot for this)
75522
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Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by 75522 »

Woot! Good news!
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400brian
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Re: 1978 spitfire, clueless please help guys!

Post by 400brian »

The tell-tale here was the timing light and plug tester showing intermittent spark as the rpms rose, suggesting that the high rpm side of the CDI system was at fault. Enjoy the sled, I applaud your perseverance! :beers;

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