Cyclones!!!

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400brian
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Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

Adding more weight ( the starter ), to the engine before you install it seemed like a dumb idea. But on the other hand, access was never going to be any better. I went with access.

If you have ever messed with this particular starter, and I believe I have seen mostly Bosch and Nippondenso on Deere's ( the 72 was something different as I recall ), you will know that access to the 2 nuts that hold the starter to the case is a problem.

There are some specialty nuts that I believe they originally had that makes this easier. The studs the starter slides onto are M8s, a 13mm wrench would typically fit the nuts on these. The problem is that the motor body is too large a diameter to allow you to get a straight line to the fastener. There is a cut out in the starter case to give you some room, but I have found it lacking.

On one of the parts sleds I liberated a starter from, I found some special nuts that may have been original, I am not positive because I found them just that once, did everyone else lose them? Anyway, the specialty fastener is an undersize nut. The nut has a flange on it to give normal clamping size, but the hex part takes a 10mm wrench.

So retrieve the 10mm socket from under the workbench or where ever it is hiding, you will need it. In my case, I bought some of these nuts on-line for just this occasion, as experience has shown that normal M8s will require gymnastics to install or remove. Looking back, when I removed this starter 6 months ago, there were NO nuts on the flange studs of the case, only the cap screws on the tail end bracket were holding the starter in place. With the undersize nuts, I just popped one into the 10mm deep well along with a long extension on a 1/4" ratchet, slid it in there and had the top nut on in seconds, and the bottom one went on just as easily. Problem solved. On the top pic, you can see the nut I am talking about just below the battery cable, and you can see the cut out in the starter.
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'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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400brian
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

So I finally got around to finishing the wiring of the Hewtech ignition.

I swapped in a different engine plug there by the recoil, as the original one had all the wires cut and or spliced. This one had the intact pair of ground wires, and I then added into it the kill wire and the two lighting coil wires.

On the black plug feeding the CDI, I had to remove the original blue and yellow hi / lo feed wires, and install the new ones coming from the rewound stator. I zip tied the rats nest up a bit, and moved on to the coils.

I hate messing with those tiny little nuts, but I did manage to get the wires coming from the CDI box attached to the coils without dropping them! It remains to be seen if they are installed the correct way around ( left / right ). Regardless of the wire colors, if when you attempt to start the engine all you can get out of it is a backfire, stop and switch the wires around. Anyway, after all that I pulled the engine over, and it appears I have bright spark on each side. :beers;

So I should shoot some juice to the starter motor and see if that works, and if it does I guess the next thing is to drop the engine back into the chassis.
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'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

So I touched the starter wire to a battery, and the motor spun like it was idling! So, I declared that test a success, and moved on to re-installing the engine.

The first thing I noticed when I grabbed onto it was that it seemed a lot heavier than when I pulled it out. I believe I have noted this before. :bonk:
I compensated by lowering the lift a bit, then manned up and tossed the thing back into the sled.

Now begins the task of re-assembling all the bits and pieces to finish the re-fresh, and actually make it run.
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Last edited by 400brian on Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
User avatar
400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

So the next thing was to open up the 102-C clutch off the Cyclone to find out what I had. The cover bolts were Loctited in, and it took a bit of heat with the propane torch to get them out. I was using a 1/4" ratchet with a 6 point socket, I did not want to twist off a bolt! Once the cover was off I could assess the condition. There was a little crud inside the cover, but I have seen worse. This sled is showing less than 1000 miles, so I am expecting some wear, but I also expect it to have some miles left in it. The buttons were all intact, the rollers were shiny and free. The arms moved freely and looked smooth where they contact the rollers. The moveable sheave was not excessively loose on the fixed shaft. All in all, I found what I was hoping to find. The clutch will be cleaned, lubricated, re-assembled and installed back on the engine.
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'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

The 76 Cyclone clutch is back in the sled. It was cleaned and lubricated, and I polished the cover plate a little just for fun.

Next I am tightening the clutch bolt. I am guessing few have ever used this tool, as you don't need it if the clutch doesn't have the can on it. I typically hear guys say they give it a couple ugga-duggas with the impact, but the manual specifically says not to do that.
I have used the tool on the mid-mounts, but didn't think there was enough room to use it on the Cyclone. A quick look at the manual showed it in use, so I disassembled the tool and re-assembled it in place.

The compressor ring is JDM 41-2. You use it to compress the clutch so that the hole in the end of the shaft is exposed. JDM 41-4 is the 2 piece nut that has knobs that engage in those holes, and JDM 12-2 is the flat steel wrench that you wriggle over the nut, and you use this to hold the clutch from turning.

With the hole in the crank and the clutch bolt clean, I apply a little blue Loctite to the threads and turn the bolt into the end of the crankshaft. With a deep well 6 point 3/4" socket on the torque wrench, I wind it up to 50 ft/lbs and call it done. Then you get to take all this stuff back off again.
Yes it is a lot of fooling around just to install a clutch, but it keeps me out of the bars.
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'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
AirborneX4Special
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Real Name: Pat
Location: N. IL

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by AirborneX4Special »

I actually remember seeing one of those in use and had totally forgotten about them until now. Been a few moons it seems.
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400brian
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Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

So the latest on the Cyclone refresh project is the fuel pump. If you are working on a Deere sled with a Mikuni carb, you have either a round or rectangular Mikuni pump.

As far as I know, the rectangular pump is strictly a single output pump, and the round pumps came in single or dual output, depending on how many carbs you are feeding.

The Mikuni pumps are not real expensive, but the rebuild kits are cheaper yet A single output pump kit is between $5 and $15. Keep in mind that there are 2 different round pump models. The one on the 76 Cyclone is about 2" in diameter, the other is 2 1/2" in dia.

If you are looking for a kit for the single output 2" pump, just search for 451448 or DF44K. Rebuilding the pumps is easy, cleaning it will take more time than the rebuild. If you really want it to look nice, soda blasting is probably a good option. The one pictured was just scrubbed a bit with a Scotchbrite pad.
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thumbnail - 2022-08-01T020836.988.jpg
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'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
User avatar
400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

So I wanted to Mount the fuel pump in a more user friendly spot. If it weren't for the battery box, I might have put it on the bulkhead. I considered putting it on the side of the battery box, but in the end put it back under the carb, ( with some modifications ).

The original setup was with the fasteners pointed down, with nuts and washers under the engine plate. The only way you ( or at least I ) can get at those nuts and washers is to unbolt the motor mounts and pull the plate up an inch and a half or so. That is not exactly trailside repair territory, so I tried something else.

I cut one of the 1" spacers in half, went to all thread bolts, and installed them from the bottom side up. A jam nut was tightened securely to hold them in place, and then the pump was mounted with locking nuts.

In the original setup, the pulse line was in a straighter line, so getting the length just right to avoid kinks is imperative, but I think I have it so it will work.

So, was it worth all the messing around? Good question, Maybe. Another way of doing this might be to weld the nuts on the underside of the steel motor plate, or weld the nuts to a strip of steel that can be riveted to the steel or the aluminum plate.

If you like the spring hose clamps, I have finally figured out what size works ( at least for the line I am using ). Pictured are 9mm clamps, and you can buy them in bulk on the jungle website.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PP ... s_li_ss_tl
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thumbnail - 2022-08-12T235427.146.jpg
thumbnail - 2022-08-12T222156.053.jpg

'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
User avatar
400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

So with the engine in and the fuel pump mounted, I got the urge to stick the carb on and see if this thing would make smoke. I got the recoil rope re-installed, and tightened up the spark plugs. I set the muffler on, then raised the slide and shot some premix into the throat.

I pulled it over a few times and it started barking off briefly! I shot some fuel into the carb bowl, some in the throat, pulled for effect, and it ran!

If you go to the "Fanatics" FB page, I have a short video of that first start-up. I should have yelled "BRING THE THUNDER!" before I pulled the rope, but it never occurred to me in all the excitement. I don't know if I have ever heard this one run before, but I certainly have not heard it run since the Prestolite ignition was replaced with the Hewtech. https://www.facebook.com/brian.lindner. ... 3952593607
Last edited by 400brian on Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
User avatar
400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

One of the real improvements Deere made was when they went to plastic fuel tanks in 75. It seems that by that time the suppliers had the recipe figured out for a plastic tank, for the most part it seems the Deere tanks ( unlike some other makes ) have fared pretty well.

This one cleaned up nicely. I tossed a couple handfuls of crushed stone in the tank along with a squirt of Dawn detergent and a bucket of hot water. I agitated the tank for a while, let it sit for a few hours, came back sloshed it around a bit, them drained it and shook the rocks out. I rinsed it and took a look inside, and decided it was good to go.

The outside has had the initial cleanup. The forward section that sticks into the engine compartment had the typical black goo on it, the rest was just dirty. It cleaned up reasonably well. All in all, I would call it "serviceable", so far I don't think it is degraded enough to warrant refinishing. Interestingly, if you look closely by the starter handle, there is a couple of grooves on the corner of the tank, almost as if they stood on the left side of the sled and pulled the rope around the tank. Why would you do that?

I have a new gauge sourced from New Breed, so all that is really left is to replace the fuel line inside the tank, and run line to the pump and carb, and rivet the tank retainers into place. Oh, and I also have the tank decal coming from AFE.
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thumbnail - 2022-08-16T031307.086.jpg

'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
User avatar
400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

For many of you this is old news, but I wasn't aware of this, so I thought I would pass it along. The muffler retaining springs for the Cyclone had seen better days. I was doing a Google search to see what I could find, and it appeared that M48858 was still a good number. I bought a pair of NOS springs off ebay, but apparently Deere still sells them for around $18 ea.
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thumbnail - 2022-08-19T014913.286.jpg
thumbnail - 2022-08-18T210424.400.jpg

'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
User avatar
400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

I got the fuel fitting screwed out of the gas tank a while ago, and examined the pickup fitting. It was clean and undamaged, so I removed the old line and fitted a new one. According to the service manual, there was a gasket on the tank fitting originally, but I see no part number for it. I put a couple of wraps of Teflon tape on the threads, then added a bit of sealant on the fitting where it butts up against the tank. Hopefully it will hold fuel.

A couple of the foam blocks that go between the tunnel and tank are long gone, so I cut some strips of truck camper shell foam to put in their place. It is not as thick as original and it is not as dense as original, but it is what I had.

The steel tank retainers were cleaned and painted, and then were riveted into place. The tank is on, and I began running fuel lines. My main goal is to run the lines in such a way so as to allow the easiest filter changes on the trail as possible. The battery box on this sled has complicated things all along the way.

The new cap that was supplied by New Breed parts really helps spruce things up!
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Last edited by 400brian on Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
User avatar
400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

I found my clutch alignment tool, JDM-81, and dropped it into place. The distance between the engine shaft and the secondary shaft was spot on, YAY!

I added the shim stack I remove on disassembly, put the tool back on and again found things to be spot on! Wow, that rarely happens. That all went so well, I pulled the secondary out and took a look at it. The plastic buttons were obviously junk, didn't need to make more than a cursory look. I went to work trying them out, I got one out intact, the the pins on the other two will have to be drilled out.

New Breed has these in stock, so they are on order.
Attachments
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'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
AirborneX4Special
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:54 am
Real Name: Pat
Location: N. IL

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by AirborneX4Special »

:popcorn:
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400brian
Posts: 5631
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
Real Name: James T. Kirk
Location: South Central Wisconsin

Re: Cyclones!!!

Post by 400brian »

The remains of the secondary buttons have been successfully removed, new ones should be here this week yet.

The fuel lines have been run. My main goal was to route them so they aren't rubbing on anything, AND allow reasonably easy access for trailside filter changes. This may not be the final configuration, the battery box complicates access.

A freshened up tach was obtained from a fellow collector recently, and that was installed as well.

I have a very nice seat that came with the sled, and I have located the box the last seat I had re-covered was shipped in! John's Upholstery was very busy with auto interior jobs the last I spoke with him, but I will get the seat boxed up and ready to ship as soon as I get the go-ahead.
Attachments
thumbnail - 2022-08-24T032428.455.jpg
thumbnail - 2022-08-24T032437.546.jpg
thumbnail - 2022-08-24T032450.114.jpg

'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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