74 X8 spark
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JDXsand00s
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:00 am
- Location: Tustin, MI
74 X8 spark
I've put 100 miles on ym x8 this winter without any leaning problems which is suprisimg with my luck, but it keeps eating up spark plugs in both cylenders. I can get it started and it will run on a cylender, then i change the plug and it seems it will either run good or kill the other plug. they don't look wet fouled and the black tips spark when pulled off and touch the shroud. there are about 8 plugs in the glove box and all are goo n2c, n3c, and br9es. i hook it up and it sohws spark, and then i install it and many times so far it lost spark within a minute or so and i keep swapping plugs. i got 5 new gray ignition coils as well, but these seemed to be good continuity. Any ideas what the problems would be: stator to coupler or gray coils to plug? or could it be that my plugs are wet fould, high spped needle is 7/8 open and has great top end.
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JDXsand00s
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:00 am
- Location: Tustin, MI
74 X8 spark
also, forgot to say, plugs never seem to go bad; i swap them out but they seem to have spark if i ever put them in again later on or the next day. also, does running on one cylender hurt the egine at all?
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400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
74 X8 spark
Ryan
What do your plug wires and plug caps look like?
Are they the originals?
Have you set the points recently or ever?
What do your plug wires and plug caps look like?
Are they the originals?
Have you set the points recently or ever?
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
74 X8 spark
Hey Ryan
So you are saying the plug is not getting wet, it still sparks but sled wont run on that cylinder.
If what I stated above is what you mean. Look into the gap like Brian said also I know from your other posts you put seals in alot of your sleds so far. Im also suspecting if you did on this you might have it out of time. It sure sounds like youve got enough compresion and the spark if the plug looks black and not wet. Its like its actually firing and burning fuel but at the wrong time and not making power causing it to act like its not running on that cylinder. If you have a point/points with to large a gap weather from being set wrong or worn from lots of use it can technicaly effect the timing aswell.
The timing really makes a huge difference in starting and performance. I bought a timing setup of ebay and curious about using it tried it out on the motor from my 400. This motor ran and started but was a lil tuff starting and seemed like it had a carb problem after properly gaping the points and timing it the thing started and ran like a new motor.
So look into the gaps first off and if no luck and you dont have a timing tool you can always mark the plate and the case so it can be put back in its original spot and experiment with moving the stator around.
So you are saying the plug is not getting wet, it still sparks but sled wont run on that cylinder.
If what I stated above is what you mean. Look into the gap like Brian said also I know from your other posts you put seals in alot of your sleds so far. Im also suspecting if you did on this you might have it out of time. It sure sounds like youve got enough compresion and the spark if the plug looks black and not wet. Its like its actually firing and burning fuel but at the wrong time and not making power causing it to act like its not running on that cylinder. If you have a point/points with to large a gap weather from being set wrong or worn from lots of use it can technicaly effect the timing aswell.
The timing really makes a huge difference in starting and performance. I bought a timing setup of ebay and curious about using it tried it out on the motor from my 400. This motor ran and started but was a lil tuff starting and seemed like it had a carb problem after properly gaping the points and timing it the thing started and ran like a new motor.
So look into the gaps first off and if no luck and you dont have a timing tool you can always mark the plate and the case so it can be put back in its original spot and experiment with moving the stator around.
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JDXsand00s
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:00 am
- Location: Tustin, MI
74 X8 spark
I belive plug caps are original, small black kioritz. I believe i had the points open to sm specs, also i think this engine was timed proper to .0023 btdc. i did rebuild 2 440/22s at once in the summer though and one had a problem with timing, i made a flashlight tester like in the manual but it wouldn't light at the right time, i moved the stator counterclockwise? as far as it could go and it was still at like .0(0?)7 or something, is this because the points weren't opening far enough or could they have just been dirty? i also think it is possible to test timing with engine still in sled though it may be more complicated then on the bench. also all oplugs were new: it will eat new ones but they still have life when i change them back another time.
i took the sled for a ride earlier, after establishing spark in one cylinder, i kept changing plugs and i finally had a winner, though it started out on one, speed rose gradually and then there was a faint few consecutive clicking pops and it came to life, 50 easily but a lot faster than 50 on my 400, i put about five miles on and it ran great, though it still runs for several seconds on one at low rpm but seemed to come to life pretty easily. i just hope it will start tomorrow. also, current set up it n2c in cyl 1 and br9es in 2.
i took the sled for a ride earlier, after establishing spark in one cylinder, i kept changing plugs and i finally had a winner, though it started out on one, speed rose gradually and then there was a faint few consecutive clicking pops and it came to life, 50 easily but a lot faster than 50 on my 400, i put about five miles on and it ran great, though it still runs for several seconds on one at low rpm but seemed to come to life pretty easily. i just hope it will start tomorrow. also, current set up it n2c in cyl 1 and br9es in 2.
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Danzig
- Posts: 4431
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- Real Name: Paul File
- Location: Van Orin, Illinois
74 X8 spark
Timing should be .023 BTDC. I would get both plugs of the same breed. The BR9ES's.
1973 JDX8
1978 Liquifire 340
1980 Liquifire 440 CC Racer
1980 Liquifire 440
1982 Liquifire 440
"Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It"
1978 Liquifire 340
1980 Liquifire 440 CC Racer
1980 Liquifire 440
1982 Liquifire 440
"Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It"
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400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
74 X8 spark
Ryan
Only you know what your plug wires and caps look like.
Solid core wires can go bad, as can the caps.
I don't know for sure if changing your wires and caps will cure your problem, there could be other issues, but you have to start somewhere, might as well start with the cheap and simple things.
If you look at the ignition FAQ , you will see them timing the engine in the sled. If you had problems timing this engine, perhaps you need to re-visit that and figure out why.
Consider changing to new solid core wires, with genuine NGK caps
Ain't this fun?
B)
Only you know what your plug wires and caps look like.
Solid core wires can go bad, as can the caps.
I don't know for sure if changing your wires and caps will cure your problem, there could be other issues, but you have to start somewhere, might as well start with the cheap and simple things.
If you look at the ignition FAQ , you will see them timing the engine in the sled. If you had problems timing this engine, perhaps you need to re-visit that and figure out why.
Consider changing to new solid core wires, with genuine NGK caps
Ain't this fun?
B)
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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Danzig
- Posts: 4431
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Paul File
- Location: Van Orin, Illinois
74 X8 spark
As Brian stated, keep asking questions and he will take up a collection for ya for some new parts.
1973 JDX8
1978 Liquifire 340
1980 Liquifire 440 CC Racer
1980 Liquifire 440
1982 Liquifire 440
"Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It"
1978 Liquifire 340
1980 Liquifire 440 CC Racer
1980 Liquifire 440
1982 Liquifire 440
"Gotta Lick It Before You Stick It"
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ICCSF 108
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
74 X8 spark
I would eliminate the "R" & get plain B9ES You do not need resistor plugs,
Ken
Ken
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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JDXsand00s
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:00 am
- Location: Tustin, MI
74 X8 spark
How wet does a plug have to be wet fouled? I can't lean out my carb much more due to serious engine damage: 7/8 open to counter a rich low end, but on the stand it eventually almost always clears itself out and runs on both. Could it be the plugs wet-foul under load but work fine without load? What would be the next option to adjust the carb, without leaning it out, to fix low end richness? Gas is about 40-50:1, premium and idle mixture needle is 1/2 open. Could i shut the idle mixture all the way off without a problem? I'm beginning to think after the stand test that my problem might be wet fouled plugs, though they don't look too wet.
Note: this is amazingly fun, got a 400 going this morning and caught some leaves on fire with the muffler; same 400 has bolts mising in chaincase so secondary wobbles violently and ate ate belt. Parked it immediatly. Good thing: carb was good and went on other 400 and now it runs great-no speedo but around 60 and the engine still felt cool after 5 miles. Could this be a small victory?
Note: this is amazingly fun, got a 400 going this morning and caught some leaves on fire with the muffler; same 400 has bolts mising in chaincase so secondary wobbles violently and ate ate belt. Parked it immediatly. Good thing: carb was good and went on other 400 and now it runs great-no speedo but around 60 and the engine still felt cool after 5 miles. Could this be a small victory?
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ICCSF 108
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
74 X8 spark
wouldn't genuine NGK caps be resitor caps?? you can buy NEW BRIGGS & STRATON caps & ends (the ends will be a little wire coil that fit over the spark plug & has a hooked end that pushes into the plug wire, then just spit into the cap & push it over the wire end to get it in place) from your NAPA dealer these won't be resistor type (which are better) & you also can get new solid wire plug wires from them also buy the foot.
NOTE: remember the plug wires screw into your coils on the older sleds, (so you don't yank them out & bust a coil)
Also if you can shut off the LOW IDLE SCREW then your sucking air some place other than though the carb ck for an air leak behind the carb or on the intake manifold someplace.
Ken
NOTE: remember the plug wires screw into your coils on the older sleds, (so you don't yank them out & bust a coil)
Also if you can shut off the LOW IDLE SCREW then your sucking air some place other than though the carb ck for an air leak behind the carb or on the intake manifold someplace.
Ken
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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grasscutter97
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:00 am
- Location: Omaha, NE 68103
74 X8 spark
As noted by your own post, you have a timing issue. We are talking about mm's here. It is vital to get it right, and you admitted when you tried to adjust it, you ran out of adjustment. Figure that out first.
Plugs will be wet, if not firing at correct position, and give false impression of carb flooding, etc. Fuel is being dumped into cylinders and not getting burned off. Take the time and go through it step by step, new condensors, new points. It sucks, but its worth the time. Yes, you can do it with engine in sled.
Dirty, or pitted points, results in engine being off time. Usually its not enough to make a huge difference in performance. But over time it will.
Plugs will be wet, if not firing at correct position, and give false impression of carb flooding, etc. Fuel is being dumped into cylinders and not getting burned off. Take the time and go through it step by step, new condensors, new points. It sucks, but its worth the time. Yes, you can do it with engine in sled.
Dirty, or pitted points, results in engine being off time. Usually its not enough to make a huge difference in performance. But over time it will.
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400brian
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: James T. Kirk
- Location: South Central Wisconsin
74 X8 spark
Ken
The plug ends you describe are exactly like the "sparky" caps I tried first last winter.
They wouldn't stay on, and they were hard to put on and off correctly with out trouble.
Yes the NGKs are resistor caps. I'm willing to take that trade off to get a high quality cap. As I have said, the aircraft community uses these exclusively, even on inverted engines.
I feel they are worth the money, around $3 ea.
Central Snowmo lists a Bosch type cap that looks very much like the originals. They screw into the wire, and are $5.25 a pair.
The plug ends you describe are exactly like the "sparky" caps I tried first last winter.
They wouldn't stay on, and they were hard to put on and off correctly with out trouble.
Yes the NGKs are resistor caps. I'm willing to take that trade off to get a high quality cap. As I have said, the aircraft community uses these exclusively, even on inverted engines.
I feel they are worth the money, around $3 ea.
Central Snowmo lists a Bosch type cap that looks very much like the originals. They screw into the wire, and are $5.25 a pair.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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JDXsand00s
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:00 am
- Location: Tustin, MI
74 X8 spark
here's something new, it really seems to be killing my plugs now. when i test for spark it is arcing out the side into the head instead of the tip, but only on cyl 2 it seems. runs great with a new plug for about 15 miles before it arcs out the side and goes at 6 grand on cyl 1. If it sits for several hours i'll have to change the plug within 200 feet. i will pull the engine and go through electrical again, clean points, time and nos gray coils, but what should i like for in terms of the plug murderer? also, does anyone know what champion n59g plugs are comparable to, i just got 24 today. Thanks
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JDXsand00s
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:00 am
- Location: Tustin, MI
74 X8 spark
i would never think that leaning it out would cause it to look rich, all of the other times my engine were lean i fried the electrode off or it turned a nice light brown. my plugs also feel really hot when i pull them though then end isn't. hopefully when i get it timed and pressure tested it will run good when i open it up. i'll tune the carb to 1 1/4 and hopefully tune it the right way. thanks for the help everyone.