Will 440/22a Jugs fit on the 400/22 crankcase???

JDX-8 · Post by **JDX-8** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:08 pm

I think i found some Jugs that might work for me???
I have a KEC-400/22 that im turning into a 440....
Does it have to be a set of /22 jugs... or will the /22a work?
The /21 Jugs will not work right?....

Thanks guys, Kelly

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:17 pm

The /22A jugs should work just fine. The /22A engine jug/heads was a revision which included the cdi ignition and ran on high octane gas. The /22B engine jugs/heads had lowered compression to run regular grade octane. Do you have the later heads which were used on the X8 or cyclone with cdi ignition.

JDX-8 · Post by **JDX-8** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:31 pm

Hum...... i had planed to use the KEC-400/22 heads i have with any 440 jugs and pistons i can get my hands on!. (that will work)

.... the Jugs i found come with the heads.... but one is really messed up from some metal hitting the head on the inside... cylinder wall is in okay shape with a good honing it will be all good....

I have been told that i can use the 400 heads i have with the 440 jugs.... but dont know if i can use it with the /22a jugs or not?.....

Is it not possiable to use the /21 jugs?.... im thinking no... but not for sure!

Thanks, Kelly

JDX-8 · Post by **JDX-8** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:22 am

Roger that!..

so how about the KEC-400/22 heads i have, mounted on the 440/22a Jugs..... as i have learned....

440/22a jugs mount on my 400/22 crankcase....

but will my 400/22 heads mount on those /22a jugs?.....

Thanks again guys... you all are helping me make sure that i dont end up with engine parts i cant use.... for that i thank you!!!!

Kelly

JDT · Post by **JDT** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:42 am

Hey Kelly with all those extra engine parts you have accumulated you should build a 880 engine.

:unsure:

JDX-8 · Post by **JDX-8** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:38 am

JDT wrote: Hey Kelly with all those extra engine parts you have accumulated you should build a 880 engine.

:unsure:

You think i can get two 440's in there?.... i bet i would have room if i relocate the fuel tank to in the back part of the seat!!!.... Custom.....

any ideas on that head problem.... im thinking if the /22a jugs will mount on my /22 block.... then the head from the /22 should be okay... hell..... who knows!!!

may just have to try!

Have a good one guys, Kelly

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:24 am

JDX-8 wrote: Roger that!..

so how about the KEC-400/22 heads i have, mounted on the 440/22a Jugs..... as i have learned....

440/22a jugs mount on my 400/22 crankcase....

but will my 400/22 heads mount on those /22a jugs?.....

Thanks again guys... you all are helping me make sure that i dont end up with engine parts i cant use.... for that i thank you!!!!

Kelly

Kelly,
You should check out the JD online parts catalog. It lists 2 different head gaskets between the 400/22 and the 440/22 so I would think those 2 heads are not interchangable. It seems that all the /22, /22A, /22B heads would interchange but I would use them in a matching pair because of different compression ratios.

JDX-8 · Post by **JDX-8** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:38 pm

I was aware of the gasket difference.... as i cant remember who on here told me.... but they said i could use the 440 jugs with the 400 heads for some height in compression.... but to make sure i use the head gasket for the jugs and not the head..... just was not for sure about the /22a..... as untill just this week i had never heard of it!!!....

it is just this one head is beat up so bad.... but they say the cylinder is in pretty good shape..... so for like $40 i could have both KEC-440/22a Cylinders, and the nice head and a beat up head that matches it.... would still need pistons!.... not for sure if i will go this route or not?....

Thanks for the help guys!.... , Kelly

JDFanPa · Post by **JDFanPa** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:29 pm

Kelly Pat brings up a good point on the 2 different gaskets heres the deal if you use the 400 heads you need to use the 440 headgaskets and you should be fine. More than likely the only physical difference in the gaskets is the hole size of the cylinder bore section. Since 340,400 and 440 will all bolt on the same crankcase you already know the stud holes are the same. My reason for saying to use the 440 gaskets is for 1 you need to buy 440 base gaskets anyway and you need the bigger bore size or you could risk piston contact and have a motor that wont turn over. I know this from first hand experience not on a ccw but on a jlo/rockwell motor I had that problem when I put 400 heads on a 440 I used the 400 gaskets because I had them and the pistons hit the gasket. This happens because there is actually a slight amount of the piston above the top ring groove that goes into the heads combustion chamber when the motor rotates.

Not only do the 21s have different port than a 22 the studs are not located the same either. I know this from trying to use 21 head gaskets on a 22 3 studs will line up 1 wont. So in short anything 21 wont fit a 22.

JDX-8 · Post by **JDX-8** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:04 pm

Thank you very much.... that is what i was thinking ... i just needed someone else to comferm it.....

Anyone have a stock set of 440/22 pistons laying around????

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:09 am

If they do I'm gonna be PO'ed, I've been looking for a pair of Kioritz 440/22 pistons for years.

They are available aftermarket from the usual sources.

harleysportster · Post by **harleysportster** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:51 pm

Here is a set of 0.040 pistons on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Snowmobile-Joh...1QQcmdZViewItem

JDX-8 · Post by **JDX-8** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:02 pm

yea... i have been watching those.. and a few other pairs... everyone seems to have .040 over but not stock bore!.... bummer!..... Any one on here have a bore bar that will do small cylinders like these CCW motors?.... CHEAP????

If i can get someone to do it real cheap... i will just buy a set of those .040 over pistons.... and have "my" KEC-400/22 jugs bored to 440 spec's....+ .040 over!... from what i hear.. the only difference between the 400 and the 440 is just the bore... so i should be able to bore them to 440 specs!..... i would think!

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:15 am

These sleeves aren't very thick. 400 to 440 bore is a full 1mm diference.

I have a pair of 340S jugs that are rusty. I would like to salvage them, but I don't think there is any way they could be bored out from 60mm to 65mm.
I would need oversize 60mm piston port pistons with 18mm pins.

I would much rather have them re-sleeved. Anyone have any ideas?

Brian, I sold a set of NOS last fall...my only set...went into a BEVRA racer.

Yeah, Rich, I've got an idea where those went.

JDFanPa · Post by **JDFanPa** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:18 am

The ebay pistons are llp which are aftermarket which is no biggy but if your going aftermarket just buy the stock bore they just cost me $44.95 each from dennis kirk. There are many places that bore small cylinders if you want to buy the larger pistons just keep in mind any body doing a quality bore will want the pistons in hand.