Looking to find out from the guys that raced CC liquifires what spring set up you used on the sleds you raced. Did you use mono or multi leafs on the front and what did you use on the undercarriage? Also did you use any extra idlers and where did you position them?
Thank you for the help
Dave
CC ski springs
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Jack Frost
- Posts: 1121
- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:00 am
- Location: Allanburg, Ontario
CC ski springs
1978 340 CC Liquifire
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included
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ICCSF 108
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
CC ski springs
Use the mono (STD), as far as I know there wasn't any different ones available for the suspension, the Std CC ones worked great.. We did add another wheel kit just in front of the middle idlers & just behind the front Idlers ( they were in the inside of the skid frame just like the front ones) Not really sure if we would have needed them or not but when road running we showed a little hi-fax ware in that area & we didn't want to have to change hi-fax's during the night maintenance of the I-500 race, that time could be used repairing something else..
The problem we had with the multi-leaf springs were ( 1 ) to heavy & ( 2 ) we broke bolts that held the springs together in the ditch races.. once the mono's came out the only problem we had was spring lean on the Ice races & that was stopped by welding 2 angle irons upward in between the spindle & where the front of the spring mounted too the ski.. We also took a small rod bent in a 1/2 moon welded to a small plate & riveted to the chassis where the suspension sets so all you had to do was insert the suspension in the track make sure it was lined up with the 1/2 moon rod & jump on the sled & the bolt holes for the suspension were automatically lined up with the holes in the tunnel for very easy bolt insertion.... Also I believe there was a race bulletin about making a steel plate to rivet to the tunnel where the upper little wheels mounted to the tunnel ( These plates are shown in the John Deere CC Snowmobile guide as part number M67853 on page 112 #7 & in the Cyclone/Liquifire Parts catalog on page 40-63 # 7 & 40-78 # 7 ) as with only a locking bolt on the aluminum they had a tendency to crack the tunnel at the bolt holes..
Jon, Bobby or Steve would probably know of other options about all these areas
Kenny
The problem we had with the multi-leaf springs were ( 1 ) to heavy & ( 2 ) we broke bolts that held the springs together in the ditch races.. once the mono's came out the only problem we had was spring lean on the Ice races & that was stopped by welding 2 angle irons upward in between the spindle & where the front of the spring mounted too the ski.. We also took a small rod bent in a 1/2 moon welded to a small plate & riveted to the chassis where the suspension sets so all you had to do was insert the suspension in the track make sure it was lined up with the 1/2 moon rod & jump on the sled & the bolt holes for the suspension were automatically lined up with the holes in the tunnel for very easy bolt insertion.... Also I believe there was a race bulletin about making a steel plate to rivet to the tunnel where the upper little wheels mounted to the tunnel ( These plates are shown in the John Deere CC Snowmobile guide as part number M67853 on page 112 #7 & in the Cyclone/Liquifire Parts catalog on page 40-63 # 7 & 40-78 # 7 ) as with only a locking bolt on the aluminum they had a tendency to crack the tunnel at the bolt holes..
Jon, Bobby or Steve would probably know of other options about all these areas
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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Jack Frost
- Posts: 1121
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- Location: Allanburg, Ontario
CC ski springs
Thanks Kenny. If you have any pictures you could send me of any of the modification you did to your sleds it would be greatly appreciated. Also looking for other information on any other modifications that would have been done to the CC Liquifire to get it ready for a race.
Thanks
Dave
Thanks
Dave
1978 340 CC Liquifire
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included
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ICCSF 108
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
CC ski springs
Double nut or Loc-tite ALL bolts, don't use bolts stronger that grade 5 or 6, as grade 8's will shear before a 5 or 6 will.. We drilled out the ski pivot bushings & the ski saddles to accept 7/16 in. bolts, we welded a ware rod dia. rod along the top of the skis on both sides from the rear spring mount to front spring saddle of the ski's to help reinforce the skies also welded a small flat iron across the bottom of the ski loop to keep the loop welding from breaking loose from the ski, remember during road running (Gravel roads) & using full length Carbide runners the skis chatter like hell & tend to break just from vibrations. One thing to remember in CC racing is Murphy's Law, ie: if it can break or work loose, it will!!
The suspension was reinforced with wrap around straps welded to all suspension arms where they were mounted to the shaft tubes..
The other things you have to remember is that we reinforced the Dator so much that they self destructed themselves because of all the extra weight. So you have to find a happy medium somewhere in between not enough & too much..
One of the best things that Deere came up with is the new style chain tightener for the 78 CC sleds ( I hope to have this update mod kit available in limited quantities later this summer for those sleds that never got updated) The easiest way to tell is look at the front of the chain case if there is a square piece of aluminum bolted to the case with 2 bolts & a long tightener bolt in the middle of the square aluminum then you have the update....
Kenny
The suspension was reinforced with wrap around straps welded to all suspension arms where they were mounted to the shaft tubes..
The other things you have to remember is that we reinforced the Dator so much that they self destructed themselves because of all the extra weight. So you have to find a happy medium somewhere in between not enough & too much..
One of the best things that Deere came up with is the new style chain tightener for the 78 CC sleds ( I hope to have this update mod kit available in limited quantities later this summer for those sleds that never got updated) The easiest way to tell is look at the front of the chain case if there is a square piece of aluminum bolted to the case with 2 bolts & a long tightener bolt in the middle of the square aluminum then you have the update....
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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Matt
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CC ski springs
Kenny, normally I wouldn't question you, but as I understand it, this isn't true. Grade 6 bolts will bend and break before a grade 8 reaches it's shear point.ICCSF 108 wrote: don't use bolts stronger that grade 5 or 6, as grade 8's will shear before a 5 or 6 will..
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp
Matt - JDsleds.com Administrator-
ICCSF 108
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- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
CC ski springs
Matt, I'm not a metallurgist by no means but from my own race experience, I snapped a Cat grade 8 bolt ( double nutted & Loc-tit ) on one of my multi-leaf springs, right after that Deere came out with a race bulletin telling us not to use grade 8 bolts as they will shear before a grade 5 or 6 will????
Kenny
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
CC ski springs
I believe it is tensil strength vs shear strength. Sounds strange but when you think about it I am in Ken's corner.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
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WinnipegStPaul9
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- Real Name: Don Amber
- Location: Churubusco, IN
CC ski springs
We were urged to stay away from Grade 8 bolts in the early 70's. Don
Feel free to check out our website www.buscobullet.com for restorations or parts.
CC ski springs
10-4 Keny and Don.
Steve T.
Steve T.
CC ski springs
Sorry I meant Kenny not Keny.
Steve T.
Steve T.
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400brian
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CC ski springs
I'm thinking that Jon has mentioned that the Factory Team guys replaced the monos on the 340S with multi-leafs, because the they found the monos didn't take the abuse. Possibly the later monos were improved?
The two 340S' I have both still have the monos, but the one Troy got had been replaced with leafs. The '75 racing tips put out by Deere mention replacing the monos for added capability, and replacing the pins at the rear of the skis with lock-tighted bolts.
The two 340S' I have both still have the monos, but the one Troy got had been replaced with leafs. The '75 racing tips put out by Deere mention replacing the monos for added capability, and replacing the pins at the rear of the skis with lock-tighted bolts.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
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72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
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'74 340 green machine
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Jack Frost
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CC ski springs
Does anyone on the site have some pictures they could share of race ready CC Liquifires? Or even just regular 78 CC?
Dave
Dave
1978 340 CC Liquifire
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included
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ICCSF 108
- Posts: 4369
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Kenny Heins, AKA Grumpy
- Location: Blue Springs Mo.
- Contact:
CC ski springs
Dave, Ck you email later today I'll send some pictures to it..
Kenny
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
-
WinnipegStPaul9
- Posts: 5577
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:00 am
- Real Name: Don Amber
- Location: Churubusco, IN
CC ski springs
I would have bet anything that we replaced the mono's with multi-leaf but my pictures do not verify that. I guess we used the factory mono's. I was going to replace the mono's on my 340/S but will leave the mono's on now. DA
Brian, what did that memo say again about changing to multi-leafs???
Brian, what did that memo say again about changing to multi-leafs???
Feel free to check out our website www.buscobullet.com for restorations or parts.
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Jack Frost
- Posts: 1121
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CC ski springs
Thanks Kenny! Got the emails.
Dave
Dave
1978 340 CC Liquifire
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included
I once bought my kids a set of batteries for Christmas with a note on it saying, toys not included