I'm not sure it's going to happen as the minimum order to get the price down is more than most are willing to order, which means the minimum price would be higher than most would be willing to pay..
Kenny
295/S & 340/S pistons
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ICCSF 108
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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Cabindweller
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- Real Name: Jerry Zebro
- Location: Ridgeland WI
Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
Are there final Numbers on cost yet? I would like to see them regurdless.
Old sleds are hours of entertainment.... then you get to ride them for a little bit.
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ICCSF 108
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
ICCSF 108 wrote:PJ, First off thanks for all your help on this project, I knew it wouldn't be easy..
Can you ask your contact if Wiseco still has the tooling ( probably not the right word ) for there old CW-340-S or newer number 2012PS ( both the same piston ) I believe these pistons will work in the 340/S although I'm not sure about ring pin placement or anyother problems with using them. I do know that they don't use a L ring & the top ring is lower on the piston.. but there are guy's out there that claim to be using them in the 340/S motors???
Also I guess I never thought of mentioning this before but if it would be easier for them to find or produce a 295/S piston larger than the std 55.9 mm bore, I'm sure that we could punch the motors out a little larger to accommodate a slightly larger piston. I do know that there isn't enough meat to go out to 60mm thought..
Question, when he was talking about $200.00 + per piston kit is that meaning ea. piston or does " Kit " mean a pair??
Again thanks for your time that your putting in on this..
Kenny
Kenny~
I'll give them a call in the morning to ask them your questions and report back what they say. If they do have the original tooling for the old CW-340-S engine and can produce a production run from that, than I'd say you guys' might have a solution. However, if that is done and the pistons don't fit for what-ever reason due to differences in the cylinder port locations or other critical parameters, than someone will still have to cover the costs of that run with Wiseco to get them paid up. I don't want to get "caught in the middle" if something goes wrong given that decision to move forward trying to "fit" a former piston design into the 340/s engine, if you know what I mean...
As far as the 295/s goes~ It doesn't make any difference in tooling design/creation "difficulty" by going oversize, since their is no current 295/s tooling in existence at Wiseco at the moment and the cost to produce an O.E.M. size would be the same as if an oversize die and punch was created.
Lastly, the the costs of the piston kits with new tooling would most likely be $200+ per piston (with pin, circlips and rings) rather than as a pair. I.E. $400+ for a piston kit "pair". Of course, this cost would go down significantly the more pieces over 100 in a production run one goes.
pj
Can you ask your contact if Wiseco still has the tooling ( probably not the right word ) for there old CW-340-S or newer number 2012PS ( both the same piston ) I believe these pistons will work in the 340/S although I'm not sure about ring pin placement or anyother problems with using them. I do know that they don't use a L ring & the top ring is lower on the piston.. but there are guy's out there that claim to be using them in the 340/S motors???
Also I guess I never thought of mentioning this before but if it would be easier for them to find or produce a 295/S piston larger than the std 55.9 mm bore, I'm sure that we could punch the motors out a little larger to accommodate a slightly larger piston. I do know that there isn't enough meat to go out to 60mm thought..
Question, when he was talking about $200.00 + per piston kit is that meaning ea. piston or does " Kit " mean a pair??
Again thanks for your time that your putting in on this..
Kenny
Kenny~
I'll give them a call in the morning to ask them your questions and report back what they say. If they do have the original tooling for the old CW-340-S engine and can produce a production run from that, than I'd say you guys' might have a solution. However, if that is done and the pistons don't fit for what-ever reason due to differences in the cylinder port locations or other critical parameters, than someone will still have to cover the costs of that run with Wiseco to get them paid up. I don't want to get "caught in the middle" if something goes wrong given that decision to move forward trying to "fit" a former piston design into the 340/s engine, if you know what I mean...
As far as the 295/s goes~ It doesn't make any difference in tooling design/creation "difficulty" by going oversize, since their is no current 295/s tooling in existence at Wiseco at the moment and the cost to produce an O.E.M. size would be the same as if an oversize die and punch was created.
Lastly, the the costs of the piston kits with new tooling would most likely be $200+ per piston (with pin, circlips and rings) rather than as a pair. I.E. $400+ for a piston kit "pair". Of course, this cost would go down significantly the more pieces over 100 in a production run one goes.
pj
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
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Cabindweller
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- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:00 am
- Real Name: Jerry Zebro
- Location: Ridgeland WI
Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
I need 295/s Pistons. I would pay $200.00 each for them. What else are you going to do if you got to have them? I am pretty sure I have located enough motor parts to build a 295/s motor minus pistons . I would like to get my 295/s put back together as close to origanal as possable. I more than likely will buy all the motor parts I need regaurdless. But If this falls through I will be sitting on some motor parts for who knows how long, maybe forever. I don't need to get my project done any time soon so I can be paitient with what ever happens here. I am working to make a huge job change at the end of the year and will be better funded for pistons after then. What I am saying is the longer this pistion project takes the more pistons I will be able to afford to buy if it dose go through. Now on a deferent note. Is there any possability that CCW could repop our pistions? I thought I read somewhere that CCW still built motors maybe only weed-whip or something to that nature. But the Japanese built CCW motors right? I know its probably a long shot but would it a possability that there might still be tooling for these pistions stashed away in Japan somewhere? Forgive me in advance if this is is compleatly retarded thinking. Just something I thought of. I wouldn't have the slightest clue on how to investigate that.
Jerry
Jerry
Old sleds are hours of entertainment.... then you get to ride them for a little bit.
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400brian
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
Kioritz has no interest in us last time I made an overture. In fact, the office in Japan never replied. The US office directed me to DK and Central.
'09 Vintage Challenge Survivor, and I wasn't late for supper!
'10, '11, '12, '13,'14,'15,'16,'17, '18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Vintage Challenge Survivor !
72 400 restored, Father bought new in '71
73 X8 restored
'74 340 green machine
'74 X8 9 time VC finisher
'78 Spitfire in progress
2 '75 340S 1 running, one on deck
'78 LF 440 future CC clone
'73 Skiroule RTX 440, 500 mi.
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bottomsupduckclub
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
Jerry, For starters I don' t think that it is out of the question that the tooling is still sitting somewhere at the CCW factory! I know of factorys, John Deere included, that store tooling for many years, for what they call "service parts." I'm in the same situation, I could really use a 295s piston to put together my machine, which only has about 650 miles on it. I'd also be willing to pay a good price for these pistons myself. Lets all get together & get some of these pistons produced, I think the more people that get involved the better & of course the lower the cost should be. I spoke my piece for now.
BOTTOMS UP from the birthplace Horicon, WI 
BOTTOMS UP from the birthplace Horicon, WI 
Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
I took this project as far as I could go with Wiseco over several months and if you re-read some of my last posts in this thread, you'll see I posted in GREAT specific detail, ALL the costs associated with getting 295/s-340/s pistons produced for you through them. If that doesn't work, I even posted a web link to another company that may be able to help; however, I've never worked with them before.
FYI- I've still got Kenny's sample 295/s-340/s pistons and cylinders here at the shop from the project that I need to send back to him before I forget.. I also sent Kenny and DA some detailed Wiseco piston development engineering data that could be used also if someone decides to pick up where I left off.
Hope that helps.
PJ
FYI- I've still got Kenny's sample 295/s-340/s pistons and cylinders here at the shop from the project that I need to send back to him before I forget.. I also sent Kenny and DA some detailed Wiseco piston development engineering data that could be used also if someone decides to pick up where I left off.
Hope that helps.
PJ
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ICCSF 108
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
Hey PJ, I'm working on another angle again on this, send me your phone numbers & I'll call you & run something by you.
Kenny
Kenny
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
ok so there is nothing to support this comment but my own silly opinion and obviously many of you have spent time discussing this with manufactures ,but i would think as slow is everyone is in the motorsports industry as a whole .we could affordably get some pistons made wade
certificate recipiant of the 12 vintage challenge !! on a 78 liquifre 440,
certificate recipiant of the 13 vintage challenge !! on a 340/s
certificate recipient of the 14 vintage challenge !! on a 78 liquifire 440
joe forgot the certificates for the 2015 vintage challenge
crossed the start/finish line twice at the 2013 and 2014 I500 on a 78 liquifire 440
certificate recipiant of the 13 vintage challenge !! on a 340/s
certificate recipient of the 14 vintage challenge !! on a 78 liquifire 440
joe forgot the certificates for the 2015 vintage challenge
crossed the start/finish line twice at the 2013 and 2014 I500 on a 78 liquifire 440
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WinnipegStPaul9
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
Wade, ol buddy, go back and read this thread again. PJ busted his chops to get something done with perhaps the number one piston manufacturer and you can see the results. Not sure why folks think getting pistons made is easy. I will tell you that PJ has NOT given up on a moderatly to expensively priced piston. I let him tell you more about it when he's ready.
DA
DA
Feel free to check out our website www.buscobullet.com for restorations or parts.
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Matt
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
I think the problem is you can't reduce the initial manufacturing costs while maintaining a level of quality, unless you can make a ton of them to spread out those costs.lwb140 wrote:ok so there is nothing to support this comment but my own silly opinion and obviously many of you have spent time discussing this with manufactures ,but i would think as slow is everyone is in the motorsports industry as a whole .we could affordably get some pistons made wade
Matt - JDsleds.com AdministratorRe: 295/S & 340/S pistons
some years ago, I sent a 340S piston t0 Wiseco. They substituted a Yamaha 338 Piston, shortened the skirt a little, and I had a 340S Piston. Off hand I don't remember the year of the piston. I raced mine in the Winnepeg in 75 chill factor -83. Best out of the box sled I ever had. Stick
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WinnipegStPaul9
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
Stick, what was your number?
DA
DA
Feel free to check out our website www.buscobullet.com for restorations or parts.
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ICCSF 108
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Re: 295/S & 340/S pistons
Yea, Right now I'm working on a 295/S replacement. The thing you have to watch for with Yamaha pistons is some engines used pistons with Boost ports some didn't, some had 1/2 moon cuts on the bottom of the skirt on the intake side, even IF they were the same CC.. it's best to have a part number so it's easier to find a donor piston..
AKA: Kenny, Grumpy, Mr. Richard Head
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?
"I Hunt For it, Purchase it, Haul it, Sometimes Repair it, Sometimes Break it, Then Fix it Again, Label it, Warehouse it, Talk About it, So NOW, HOW Can I Take Any Less $$ For It?"
"God I love the smell of KLOTZ in the morning, That smell, you know that Gasoline/Oil Smell, MAKES the whole place SMELL like.. LIKE VICTORY. You know someday the 2 strokers are gonna end..."
Do Anti-War Protesters have reunions? If so what do they TALK about?