center crannkshaft seal

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:03 pm

what happens when your center crankshaft seal is gone? Do you still get compression

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:09 pm

The center seal problem was only experienced on pre-Deere Kawi Motors, mostly those used in Arctic Cats from 71-75.

Deere used a dynamic "non-contact" seal the does the job with the help of fuel, oil, and aerodynamics.

The CCW and Kioritz motors used similar inner and outer seals. If they blow, you will have compression, but would probably run quite lean.

I hope this helps,
-Joe Rainville
"Tech-Ed"

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:58 pm

would that make there be play in the crankshaft and would it make it hard to start after it has ran for a while

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:21 pm

Hi Dinger,

No, the seals have nothing to do with a crank's end play. The bearings and shims in the crank control end play.

Hard starting when hot can be one of several problems. If you end seals are going bad, (since they are 26 to 34 years old and exposed to gas and oil) you can get a lean condition than can show up as hard starting. Your plugs should look 'co-co tan' when the mixture is good, black and sooty if rich, and light brown to white for a lean condition.

Hard starting can also be vapor lock at the carb and/or fuel pump, bad fuel pump diaphrams, clogged pilot or low speed jets, ect. Check the basics over first, there is a reasonble explination for your problem.

Good Luck,
-Joe Rainville

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:29 am

its not hard to start when hot it is after i ride for awhile then stop for a couple of hours and leave the sled outside then go and try to start it again it is hard to start. it is really hard to even pull over

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:50 pm

center seal condition is typical of a engine that surges at idle mostly. this can happen on any new or old engine.. rubber seals can wear out with long use and improper oil mixtures and the other types of seals can be due to improper installation and or tarnished fuel stuck in grooves or seal or simular.. yes even polaris geary types can be caput with tarnished fuel...

solustion is get crank overhauled/rebuilt

otherwise it mostly sounds like your engine is bitching hard to start when cold becuase you are running to rich or too lean... lean will slowly melt parts of piston into ring grooves... look for cylinder scratching and deposits through spark plug hole..

rich means rings are gettting a large build up of carbon behind rings and engine when cold will be really tough to near impossible to pull over. solution is replace rings and clean ring grooves... piston will look oily and kind black all over if running too rich.

above can also happen with rings that are too worn .

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:06 pm

i was told that my carburator has to be cleaned. they said that it is leaking after i turn it off. another question is why when i hit the gas it boggs then it kicks the powerband

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:29 am

Could it be possible that the engine is hard to pull over because fuel is running into a cylinder?

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:59 pm

i was told it was my crankseals so i am going to try that cause i have cleaned the carb and it still does it so i will try the crank seals. That maybe why there is play in my crank like there is also

400brian · Post by **400brian** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:46 pm

How much do you know about the history of this sled? Do you know that it has the original, unmolested carb on it? Does it have the correct parts in it, is the slide adjusted correctly? Whole bunch of issues here.

The guys are saying your seals COULD be bad. There are ways to diagnose that,
( spraying starting fluid on the seal area while the engine is running ).

This hard to pull over issue sounds unrelated to seals, admittedly I am no expert, keep thinking.

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:41 pm

what would the play in the crank from then

Rodimus Prime · Post by **Rodimus Prime** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:49 pm

what play are you talking about?

is it up and down play
is it in and out play
or is it side to side play.

JoeRainville · Post by **JoeRainville** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:54 pm

If you have excessive end play in the crank, (side to side movement), that can be caused by worn crank bearings or an improperly installed crank that didn't have enough shims installed to limit endplay.

If your crank moved up and down at the clutch for example, that can be caused by very, very bad crank bearing and/or a broken crank. I've seen them come loose were the rod pins are press in for example.

Again, your seals only keep the fuel/air mixture in the motor. Bad seals can cause pistons to burn and bearings to go bad. They are not a structural element of the crankshaft, and have no influence over end play or slop in the crank. Either way, it sounds like your motor needs to taken apart and totally inspected for wear.

What sled/motor are we discussing, and other than hard starting, what are your symptoms?

We are tying to help you out here,
-Joe Rainville
"Tech-Ed"

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:53 pm

THIS IS A 440 KAWASAKI AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT HAPPEN ARE IF I GO TO GO UP A STEEP HILL IT BOGS AND THE THE POWER BAND KICKS IN . THE ONLY OTHER THAT IT DOES IS GETS HARD TO PULL OVER. ALMOST LIKE IT FREEZES UP.WITH THE MOVEMENT IN THE CRANK I REALLY DONT THINK IT IS DOING ANYTHING. BUT I COULD BE VERY WRONG

dinger507 · Post by **dinger507** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:47 am

I TOOK MY WHOLE ENGINE APRT AND FOUND OUT THAT THE CRANKSEAL WAS NO GOOD BEHIND THE CLUTCH. I HAVE NOT PUT THE ENGINE BACK TOGETHER YET BUT I HOPE THAT WAS ALL THAT WAS WRONG WITH IT .