1972 Electra 225
1972 Electra 225
I think what they mean by carbon knock is a build up of carbon on the dome of the piston that bangs into the head.
When it hits it breaks off enough of the buildup so that it stops knocking for awhile until it redeposits. Then it knocks again. This is very hard on rod bearings, rods , heads, pistons and your wallet. The carbon pieces can also ruin valve seats and clog up the exhaust.
The key thing here is to eliminate to cause of the carbon not the carbon itself. If you are carboning up the pistons there is a mixture/timing/fuel quality issue.
These engines required premium (ethyl) gas in there day. Also keep in mind that octane calculations changed in 1976? What used to be 88 is now more like 93.
I pumped Ethyl at a Phillips 66 when I was in high school that was rated 96/100. It would be called White gas today.
I have run 10 % ethonal in all my engines since 1979 and when used in a high displacement big block it does several things that are pluses. Almost eliminates pinging or precombustion, engine run-on after the ignition is turned off, lowers operating tempurature at cruising speeds, costs less per gallon, ect.
It does however not deliver the same HP as it is lower in octane. But the loss is not that bad in my book. The Minnesota Highway Patrol clocked me at 146 mph back in 1982... and the tach said I had 300 more revs to go.
I recall in my 72 455 the temp gauge ran 15-20 degrees cooler with the ethonal blended gas at 75 mph sustained driving. Plus no knocking when you hit detent and ran up to triple digits in second gear.
Longivity of the is very subjective. My personal best has been 300K. But I have seen ones with 500k on them. I am sure that was a mill that was never abused.
Joe did well with this Centurion. By the way, that is one sexy ride!
Cams, I just poked around on ebay and found several 455 cams with mild recurves priced at slightly over $100. If you are building up the rest of the motor you can concider a 3/4 rise but and if money is not an object you can get 750 HP out of the engine without NOS, blower or turbos.
But there is not anything more mean looking that a big boat with a 6-71 sticking out through the hood! Go-Baby-Go......
And again with Joe's suggestion, big pipes. The engine has to breath out both ends. Go with 2.5 inch exhaust pipes and low restiction mufflers. Not Cherry bombs as you do not want that much attention . Additionaly you will find a deeper more throaty note when the mufflers are moved further back. A 26-30" glass pack on either side of the gas tank sounds much better than the same can installed in the factory location under the seats.
If you are going over 425 HP also have a crossover or equilized pipe fitted under the front seat to balance out the sound and back pressure.
And yes, the Q-jet's a good product and very tunable to whereever you want to set it up. The very same carb produced 21 mpg one year and some really scary HP the next but limited it to 11 mpg.
I put an HEI system on my 70 that I bought a salvage yard for $40. Came from a Caddy and bolted right on. The difference in spark output is enlightening... pun intended.
When it hits it breaks off enough of the buildup so that it stops knocking for awhile until it redeposits. Then it knocks again. This is very hard on rod bearings, rods , heads, pistons and your wallet. The carbon pieces can also ruin valve seats and clog up the exhaust.
The key thing here is to eliminate to cause of the carbon not the carbon itself. If you are carboning up the pistons there is a mixture/timing/fuel quality issue.
These engines required premium (ethyl) gas in there day. Also keep in mind that octane calculations changed in 1976? What used to be 88 is now more like 93.
I pumped Ethyl at a Phillips 66 when I was in high school that was rated 96/100. It would be called White gas today.
I have run 10 % ethonal in all my engines since 1979 and when used in a high displacement big block it does several things that are pluses. Almost eliminates pinging or precombustion, engine run-on after the ignition is turned off, lowers operating tempurature at cruising speeds, costs less per gallon, ect.
It does however not deliver the same HP as it is lower in octane. But the loss is not that bad in my book. The Minnesota Highway Patrol clocked me at 146 mph back in 1982... and the tach said I had 300 more revs to go.
I recall in my 72 455 the temp gauge ran 15-20 degrees cooler with the ethonal blended gas at 75 mph sustained driving. Plus no knocking when you hit detent and ran up to triple digits in second gear.
Longivity of the is very subjective. My personal best has been 300K. But I have seen ones with 500k on them. I am sure that was a mill that was never abused.
Joe did well with this Centurion. By the way, that is one sexy ride!
Cams, I just poked around on ebay and found several 455 cams with mild recurves priced at slightly over $100. If you are building up the rest of the motor you can concider a 3/4 rise but and if money is not an object you can get 750 HP out of the engine without NOS, blower or turbos.
But there is not anything more mean looking that a big boat with a 6-71 sticking out through the hood! Go-Baby-Go......
And again with Joe's suggestion, big pipes. The engine has to breath out both ends. Go with 2.5 inch exhaust pipes and low restiction mufflers. Not Cherry bombs as you do not want that much attention . Additionaly you will find a deeper more throaty note when the mufflers are moved further back. A 26-30" glass pack on either side of the gas tank sounds much better than the same can installed in the factory location under the seats.
If you are going over 425 HP also have a crossover or equilized pipe fitted under the front seat to balance out the sound and back pressure.
And yes, the Q-jet's a good product and very tunable to whereever you want to set it up. The very same carb produced 21 mpg one year and some really scary HP the next but limited it to 11 mpg.
I put an HEI system on my 70 that I bought a salvage yard for $40. Came from a Caddy and bolted right on. The difference in spark output is enlightening... pun intended.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
1972 Electra 225
the carbon knock is believed to be a cabon buildup in the heads, and buy running the trans fluid throught the carb it should blow the carbon out, but like i said, it could blow a rod and a piston out to soo...
nothin smells better than a diesle in the mornnin cept mabey a 2 stroke
1972 Electra 225
SeaFoam Is made from Petroleum and can do no harm to the Motor. www.Seafoam.com
BOB From MASS
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
1972 Electra 225
Bob I feel that any liquid introduced into the intake, which is designed for only vapor, can do harm. I have witnessed it firsthand.
Liquids are noncompressable. It is like slugging the low side of a compressor. It can cause severe damage.
Any old engine that has sat for a while will have gunk everywhere inside... not just in the pan. It is important to remove this before putting it back in service. If the engine is pulled, disassembled and renew this internal cleaning is part of the procedure.
However if the engine is not torn down a real effort must be made to clean out all the passages, nooks and cranies. This is what I was rambling on about.
There is one other way to do this. My grandfather was a mechanic and he told me about this. And I have done this myself before.
Drain all the oil out of the pan. Put one gallon of kerosene in the engine. Start the engine...run at idle ONLY... for 5 minutes. Drain pan again. Change oil filter as it will be plugged up and in bypass mode. Add one gallon of kerosene again. Start and idle for five minutes. Drain oil and change filter again. The oil will be much cleaner than the first two times. But if it still has crap in it repeat the kerosene douch.
For those of you that think that running the engine with no oil in it will seize it up this is not the case as long as it is at idle under no load and for a short time.
Remember the demonstations for Archer Oil at the County Fair?
Liquids are noncompressable. It is like slugging the low side of a compressor. It can cause severe damage.
Any old engine that has sat for a while will have gunk everywhere inside... not just in the pan. It is important to remove this before putting it back in service. If the engine is pulled, disassembled and renew this internal cleaning is part of the procedure.
However if the engine is not torn down a real effort must be made to clean out all the passages, nooks and cranies. This is what I was rambling on about.
There is one other way to do this. My grandfather was a mechanic and he told me about this. And I have done this myself before.
Drain all the oil out of the pan. Put one gallon of kerosene in the engine. Start the engine...run at idle ONLY... for 5 minutes. Drain pan again. Change oil filter as it will be plugged up and in bypass mode. Add one gallon of kerosene again. Start and idle for five minutes. Drain oil and change filter again. The oil will be much cleaner than the first two times. But if it still has crap in it repeat the kerosene douch.
For those of you that think that running the engine with no oil in it will seize it up this is not the case as long as it is at idle under no load and for a short time.
Remember the demonstations for Archer Oil at the County Fair?
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
1972 Electra 225
Decker has this car been driven regularly? I assumed that it was sitting.
At least the engine is not stuck. I have a friend that is working on a 37(?) Lincoln with a V-12. The block is stuck and he has had it soaking in solvent for three months trying to free it up. He does not want to break anything as there are no parts available... period.
At least the engine is not stuck. I have a friend that is working on a 37(?) Lincoln with a V-12. The block is stuck and he has had it soaking in solvent for three months trying to free it up. He does not want to break anything as there are no parts available... period.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
1972 Electra 225
the car was driven regularly untill six months ago when the noise started, or so the guy that i bought it from said, and its been in my yard for about two
nothin smells better than a diesle in the mornnin cept mabey a 2 stroke
1972 Electra 225
Use a oil flush. Napa has it you could also try like Marvel Mystery oil or Slick 50.
BOB From MASS
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
1972 Electra 225
Some of the old timers that I used to race stock cars with swore by this concoction to deal with the no-lead fuel in the early 80's.
In a 10 gal can they mixed 5 gals ethonal, 5 gals premium and one pint of Marvel Mystery Oil. I never ran it in my car but I was stock and they ran mods with high compression.
Slick 50 is an additive not a flush. Diesel or kerosene is a flush.
In a 10 gal can they mixed 5 gals ethonal, 5 gals premium and one pint of Marvel Mystery Oil. I never ran it in my car but I was stock and they ran mods with high compression.
Slick 50 is an additive not a flush. Diesel or kerosene is a flush.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
- HoosierDeereMan
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:00 am
- Real Name: Troy Miley
- Location: Oakland City, IN
1972 Electra 225
Decker,
Are you sure its spark knock or a rod knock?
If you accelerate from idle about to 1/4 throttle and let off can you hear it knock while the engine coasts back down to idle? If so its a rod. You can use a engine stethiscope (spelling) to identify which cylinder it is. If one is bad chances are all are questionable. BB GM Rat motor rebuilds get expensive quick. Even if you go stock with no HP upgrades. As mentioned before these engines weren't made to run on todays gas. You will probably have to install hardened valve seats in the exhaust valves. All these is things add up in hurry and empty the pocket book real quick!
On the other hand if it is spark knock, GM sells what is called upper end cleaner. I had to use it before but it has been several years ago. If memory serves you pour 3/4 of it down the carb while the engine is running above idle. You released the carb butterfly and let it idle while still pouring the rest in until it kills the engine. You let it set for 10 or 15 minutes and started the engine. You then had to rev to motor to clean out the carbon deposits. I was shocked at what came through the tailpipe. It worked pretty good.
If you decide to do this you need to check the timing and tune up the car afterward to prevent it from occurring again. In my case it was a very stretched timing chain. When we used a timing light the timing mark was all over the place on the timing tab!
Just my opinion but I would not flush the engine with anything. If you do it will clean all the carbon build up from around the piston rings. Once that happens you may turn it into a oil drinker if the rings are worn. I would use the Mystery Oil or replace a quart of oil with a quart of Automatic transmission fluid. It will do some mild cleaning and free up any sticky lifters.
Very cool looking car. They sure don't make them like that anymore. Good luck with it.
Are you sure its spark knock or a rod knock?
If you accelerate from idle about to 1/4 throttle and let off can you hear it knock while the engine coasts back down to idle? If so its a rod. You can use a engine stethiscope (spelling) to identify which cylinder it is. If one is bad chances are all are questionable. BB GM Rat motor rebuilds get expensive quick. Even if you go stock with no HP upgrades. As mentioned before these engines weren't made to run on todays gas. You will probably have to install hardened valve seats in the exhaust valves. All these is things add up in hurry and empty the pocket book real quick!
On the other hand if it is spark knock, GM sells what is called upper end cleaner. I had to use it before but it has been several years ago. If memory serves you pour 3/4 of it down the carb while the engine is running above idle. You released the carb butterfly and let it idle while still pouring the rest in until it kills the engine. You let it set for 10 or 15 minutes and started the engine. You then had to rev to motor to clean out the carbon deposits. I was shocked at what came through the tailpipe. It worked pretty good.
If you decide to do this you need to check the timing and tune up the car afterward to prevent it from occurring again. In my case it was a very stretched timing chain. When we used a timing light the timing mark was all over the place on the timing tab!
Just my opinion but I would not flush the engine with anything. If you do it will clean all the carbon build up from around the piston rings. Once that happens you may turn it into a oil drinker if the rings are worn. I would use the Mystery Oil or replace a quart of oil with a quart of Automatic transmission fluid. It will do some mild cleaning and free up any sticky lifters.
Very cool looking car. They sure don't make them like that anymore. Good luck with it.
'72 400
'73 400, (2)500's, 600
'74 295/S (restored) 2010 HOF poker run survivor.
'75 800, JDX8,
'75 340/S 2011 & 2012 Vintage Challenge finisher.
'76 (2)400's
'78 Liquifire 340,440
'79 Spitfire
"If it has Tits, Tires, or Tracks it's gonna cost you money!"
'73 400, (2)500's, 600
'74 295/S (restored) 2010 HOF poker run survivor.
'75 800, JDX8,
'75 340/S 2011 & 2012 Vintage Challenge finisher.
'76 (2)400's
'78 Liquifire 340,440
'79 Spitfire
"If it has Tits, Tires, or Tracks it's gonna cost you money!"
1972 Electra 225
Seafoam is Basically the same as the GM flush but Seafoam is more readily available. I would also let it sit for more then 15 minuets. I don't know about ATF in the oil.
BOB From MASS
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
1972 Electra 225
its been confirmed by a mechanic that used to work on 455s that it is a rod knock.
nothin smells better than a diesle in the mornnin cept mabey a 2 stroke
1972 Electra 225
Easy just pull the valve covers and he rockers and replace. Make sure you put the right lift ones back in.
BOB From MASS
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
1972 Electra 225
Bob I think he means connecting rod not push rod.
Why are you not workin on your boggie shaft?
Why are you not workin on your boggie shaft?
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD
1972 Electra 225
Ohh in that case have Fun. I was dont worry.
BOB From MASS
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
OWN: 1 1983 JOHN DEERE LIQUIFIRE 440
1 1973 JOHN DEERE JDX8 440
1 1982 JOHN DEERE SPORTFIRE 440
1 2000 SKIDOO MXZ 600
GOTTA LOVE THAT TWO STROKE SMELL
1972 Electra 225
I read in another thread that you made some progress today on your slide system.
Make us proud Bob.
Make us proud Bob.
Todd Schrupp
Milbank SD
Milbank SD