Spitfires, Good, Bad, & Ugly

[Frosty]

OK, here is the story. Many, many years ago I had a Liquifire 440, a friend had what I remember to be a 78 Spitfire. We swapped sleds one day trail rideing, I had a real hoot on that little sled in the twisties.

Here I am decades later really starting to think about getting a Spitfire. I need a education though. Please tell me both the good points and bad points of them. The pros and cons of early verses late models. I understand the tracks are a weak link. Are there any simple affordable and available track options for them ? What about engines and reliability.

Im not looking for collectability, Im more concerned with reliability and longevity when ridden on a regular basis. Just trying to avoid the common pitfalls of starting with the wrong sled .

Help a Deere newbie understand the ins and outs of the Spitfires ! Thanks !

[ChickenRat]

Finding tracks are an issue. Keep rear suspension well lubed, seats have a tendency to crack, both Kohler & Kawasaki motors are very good motors. I would change the crank seals on either one though as they are 30+ years old. Keep a fresh belt on it and keep the belt running height in check as these direct drive sleds are more sensitive than other sleds to belt wear.
Bottom line, they really are great little sleds....


Robb

[JoeRainville]

Frosty,

I generally prefer the green 78-79 Kohler powered Spitfires. Most of my reasons are anicdotal, not nessicarily based on fact or data. First is that I think the emerald green sleds have more personality than the black and silver. I also like the Kohler motor, both for durabilty and fin density on the head and jug. I have seen many Kawi powered 80-82 Spits refit back to the older Kohler motor. I've even seen a few Kohler powered Snowfires. But I have never seen a green Spit repowered with a Kawi motor. It could be that either the Kohler motors hold up better or the fact that Deere built a ton of them in 78-79, or both.

Secondly, the 78-79 style track used a thicker belt, so it seems to be more durable. The 80-82 Spits used a better lug design that had a tallish chevron cleat molded into the track that contacted the snow before the metal cleat. I belive Deere was awarded a patent on that design too. But those thinner belts, while easier to bend, don't seem to hold up as well as the older tracks.

Again, this is not set in stone, just my take on years of collecting Deeres. I will also fully admit that the Sprint and Snowfires are my favorite "Spitfire decendants". They have 7.2 inches of rear travel, but are kind of tippy with a 32" ski stance due to a higher center of gavity than the 'Fire series chaincase sleds. The Sprintfires are liquid cooled and oil injected to boot, making them very quiet and easy to ride.

I hope this helps, and Robb is very correct that you want to the crank seals in any vintage Deere. I would also suggest the drive axle and rear idler bearings too.

-Joe Rainville

[Frosty]

Tell me more comparisons between the engines. Were they both CDI ? Has one got better carburation, exhaust, crank life ? Has one got a more reliable stator ?

The better cooling fins sound helpful on the Kohler. Were the rear skids any different between the two ?

Im real vintage sled experienced, just never really looked a Spitfires. Keep the comparisons coming ! THANKS ALOT GUY'S !

[80spitfire]

As far as which engine is better I don't really know the big pros and cons of the Kohler vs. Kawi. Altough I do really like my Kawi. The big difference in the tracks is like rainville said how the the 80-82s had the really nice cleat in them. The later track is way better for crossing on dry pavement. The early tracks are known for being terrible at crossing roads. The only other con to the Spitfire is that since they are direct drive, they hace a hard time getting up on a plane when in deep snow due to the high angle of the front of the track. Over all though, the Spitfire is probably the coolest snowmobile ever built.

[Frosty]

I heard that it might be possible to swap in a track and suspension from a Yamaha Enticer 340 ? Anybody know if this is easily doable ?

Another of many questions, are the bulkheads sound enough to run ski spreaders ? Will the chassis handle it if not beaten senseless ? Wondering if it will bend things with a pair of spreaders if ridden relatively nicely .

What are the differences between 78 and 79 models ? I think the 79 has a different more silenced airbox ? Any chassis improvements over the years ?

Thanks !

[Frosty]

[Matt]

You might want to read the track interchange topic, and the Direct Drive Chassis Limitations topics in the FAQ to learn more about the direct drive setup and swapping in other tracks.

I don't think I would recommend ski-spreaders - the spindles are already angled out. I'm sure it's been done though.

JDparts does show one air box for '78, and a new one for '79 on. I don't I think I would worry much about it.

[Sprailfire340]

I think the airbox change went hand in and with the switch from the mikuni slide (78) to the butterfly carb (79). I converted my 79 over to a slide because I think they are easier to work on...

[WinnipegStPaul9]

Frosty, you have a PM.

[johnnycyclone]

Frosty,
I am just finishing up a restoration on a 79 Spitty. Plus, I just purchased an 80 and an 82. As far as I can see there aren't any major changes through the years. There are 3, I guess major changes to the Spitfire. As Joe stated, the track was changed for the 1980 model year, looks more like a Trailfire track. Actually the 79 Trailfire has the same track. Two would be the change in carbs. 78's had Mikuni round slide, where as the 79-82 switched to the butterfly. Either air box should work as long as you have the correct carb boot. The slide carb inlet is smaller in diameter, than the butteryfly carb. The third would be the engine change. Neither engines have points, but the Kohler runs what is called an amplifier, which adds another electrical component that could potentially fail. The cooling fins on the Kohler heads are taller, but there are only 9 of them. The cooling fins on the Kawi heads are shorter, but there are 11 total. Total surface area is probably about the same. Not sure on the cylinders, haven't looked that closely.

Chassis seem to be the same, I don't see any changes there.

Suspensions look the same also. Only difference I have seen is the rear axle went from being a round one to a square one.

Spitfire's a very light, you can pretty much toss them around where you want to go, don't think you would really need any ski spreaders.

Tracks although scarce can be found, but the price may be a little higher than what you want to pay. The last one I sold, went for $130.

Hope this helps...Terre

[Frosty]

Thanks alot for the reply's guys !

I have a line on a 78 that seems a possible good project. Seller claims compression is 125 PSI. Is this normal healthy compression ? He also claims it drops a cylinder when running, and has done some sort of stator test or something and determined one cylinder gets not spark. Could this be the "Amplifier" ? Is this something located under the flywheel or external ?

Engine has been tore down and rebuilt with new seals and gaskets but drops a cylinder like it did before the rebuild.

So, the 78 has a Mikuni slide style (VM) carb ? Later is butterfly ? Do the butterfly style have difficulty adjusting or staying in tune ? Are the butterfly float bowl style with a remote crankase vacuum fuel pump style ?

Remember, I am not familiar with Spitfires and the sled is hours away from seller in storage.

On that canted front spindle style, do they seem adequately wide ski stance for the rest of the sled ? They just look like a narrow stance in pics. Dont want troubles bending things if the chassis cant handle spreaders though.

Please keep the answers coming , I need a quick education before I commit to a sled purchase.

Thanks !!

[80spitfire]

That's certainly a reasonable compression. I wouldn't be able to tell you much about the cylinder dropping cause. The butterfly, I think, is actually the better carb and yes it does have a remote crankcase vacuum fuel pump. As far as the ski stance, yes they are a bit tippy but remember they are a vintage sled. That's part of what makes them fun to drive. I personally would leave it stock.

[Sprailfire340]

The butterfly, I think, is actually the better carb...

I bet Deere would agree with you.

[80spitfire]

The butterfly, I think, is actually the better carb...

I bet Deere would agree with you.

Yep I like a carb that doesn't freeze open in too cold of weather lol The only part of the butterfly that suck is, you can't get any NOS parts for them so you end up having to buy complete carbs for parts