80 Liquifire Track swap into 81 Trailfire Questions

[Hec In Omaha]

Howdy all,

I think I finally got my brain wrapped around what's needed to make the conversion from cleated track to the Yokohama all rubber track. Here's what I have gathered.

Liquifire Parts Used:
* front driver assembly
* suspension
* Yokohama track

Trailfire Parts Used:
* rear arm (This will ensure that everything bolts up to existing bolt holes on the tunnel with no drilling required. Using the Liquifire's rear arm would leave me with 4 holes in the tunnel. Two for the old upper idlers and two for the rear mounts. In addition two new rear mount holes would need to be drilled).
* upper idlers (re-installed in the Trailfire stock location)
* shock

Here are my questions:
* Which set of rear springs do I use? The Trailfire's or the Liquifire's? I am assuming the Trailfires as the Trailfires rear spring locations are further forward than the Liquifire's.
* I will need to add Tunnel wear strips as the track I have found has studs. That wear strip kit is obsolete now. Anyone know what the thickness of the wear strip is supposed to be?


Just trying to figure everthing out before I start. BTW I have found an 80' Liquifire parts sled that I will be getting my parts off of. Is there anything else off the Liquifire I should keep for the Trailfire? Ski's, Ski Shocks etc???


Here is a pic of a Liquifire (Left)and Trailfire (Right) Suspension side by side for reference. This was sent to me by 1982LiquFire440. Thanks Man!

Am I missing anything?

Hec

[smitfire]

Weld tabs on the trailfire rear arm to use those liquifire idler wheels. You can make them just a touch taller so it clears the shock better. Then you will have the exact set up like an 82 to 84 sportfire came out with.
I suggest finding another track without studs. Why drill more holes in the tunnel to install the tunnel wear strips? Or simply take out the studs.
Use trailfire/sportfire springs.

[Hec In Omaha]

Smitfire,

Thanks for the reply!

Why would I need add idlers to the Trailfire rear arm if the Trailfire upper Idler wheels are used? What's the benefit of Liquifire idlers over Trailfire upper idlers? Not trying to argue just trying to understand. Wouldn't this leave me with two holes in the Tunnel where the Trailfire upper idlers where mounted? I have read other posts where the Yokohama track hits the Trailfire upper shock mount. In all cases the Trailfire upper idlers weren't used in those track conversions for whatever reason. I think this is key! I've been told that John Deere had a publication that said to use the parts I have listed and described. So I am hoping all the engineering has been done by Mother Deere for this swap. I wish I had a copy of that bulletin! Maybe someone out here has a copy of this bulletin from Horicon they can share?

Hec

[harleysportster]

This is from an article that Joe Rainville wrote up.

The Trailfire and Liquifire tracks share some basic dimentions, like drive sprocket and slide rail center distances. Length is very close, at a nominal 116" for both. To use a rubber 80-84 Liquifire track in a Trail or early Sport, you need to either swap the drive sprockets over, as the cleated track has a 2" drive lug pitch vs. a 3.29" pitch for the rubber track. The easiest way to do this is by swaping in a complete LF track drive axle.

You can use the Trailfire suspension, but using one from an 80 Liquifire gives you a full wheel kit. The best way to do that is to swap a Trailfire rear arm and shock onto the Liquifire skid.

[smitfire]

Smitfire,

Thanks for the reply!

Why would I need add idlers to the Trailfire rear arm if the Trailfire upper Idler wheels are used? What's the benefit of Liquifire idlers over Trailfire upper idlers? Not trying to argue just trying to understand. Wouldn't this leave me with two holes in the Tunnel where the Trailfire upper idlers where mounted? I have read other posts where the Yokohama track hits the Trailfire upper shock mount. In all cases the Trailfire upper idlers weren't used in those track conversions for whatever reason. I think this is key! I've been told that John Deere had a publication that said to use the parts I have listed and described. So I am hoping all the engineering has been done by Mother Deere for this swap. I wish I had a copy of that bulletin! Maybe someone out here has a copy of this bulletin from Horicon they can share?

Hec

Just for the fact the factory did it that way in the 82 to 84 sportfires. They still had the upper idler wheels holes as well, there is a fancy bolt with red cap on the nut that goes in that hole.

[Hec In Omaha]

Smitfire,

Maybe I should look for a Sportfire rear arm assy or determine how and where to mount idler brackets on the Trailfire rear arm.

Hec

[smitfire]

Smitfire,

Maybe I should look for a Sportfire rear arm assy or determine how and where to mount idler brackets on the Trailfire rear arm.

Hec

Very hard to find an 82 to 84 sportfire arm. You can make one from your trailfire arm, and add tabs.
Just copy what the liquifire arm has, mount the wheels as far forward as possible on the arm, and I like to go just a tad taller on the tabs to make sure it clears the shock.

[Hec In Omaha]

Smitfire,

I can picture what your sayin now! Thanks! Now define a tad taller? What are we talkin about here? 1/4"?, 1/2? Maybe I should fab up the idler brackets then install the track. Slide the brackets and idlers forward so that the idlers have the same clearance with the cross-member as the Liquifire set up. Then raise the brackets high engough so the track cant hit the top shock mount. Clamp the brackets in place and tack weld them on. Check everything, remove track and weld them up!

Hec

[smitfire]

Smitfire,

I can picture what your sayin now! Thanks! Now define a tad taller? What are we talkin about here? 1/4"?, 1/2? Maybe I should fab up the idler brackets then install the track. Slide the brackets and idlers forward so that the idlers have the same clearance with the cross-member as the Liquifire set up. Then raise the brackets high engough so the track cant hit the top shock mount. Clamp the brackets in place and tack weld them on. Check everything, remove track and weld them up!

Hec

1/4" is about what I've done.

[Hec In Omaha]

Smitfire,


Thanks so much for all the help. BTW it sounds like you have done this conversion before! How'd they turn out? Lesson's learned?

The pic below is what I believe you were saying to do, plus raising the idler wheels 1/4".

harleysportster,

I found this comment on a post for converting a 1980 Sportfire to a rubber track. The 80' Sport and my 81' Trail have the same rear arm. This confirms what I originally posted regarding using the Trailfire rear arm and trailfire upper Idler's in their stock location. This is the route I will try first. I can always add the Liquifire Idlers to the Trailfire rear arm if it doesn't work.
***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Per a posting by Joe Rainville:
"I normally use a Liquifire drive axle ass'y for the swap. I also typically take a LF rear suspension and swap over the Trail/Sportfire rear arm and shock, and use the Trail/Sport upper idler shaft. "

Using these parts will not require you to drill new holes in the tunnel. I would use your current sportfire rear arm (AM54749).
***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************


If anyone is interested, I can start a Trailfire track conversion thread and document all the steps and parts required for the conversion. My goal is to do the conversion using John Deere parts only. Not interested in swapping tracks from other brands.

Hec

[harleysportster]

Hec,
What you are doing has been done before but feel free to document it with pictures as your go. By using the Liquifire skid and welding the tabs on the Trailfire arms, you are essentially creating a Sportfire rear skid. I am not sure if the track rubs the top of the shock mount on the Sportfire but it is normal for this to happen on the Liquifire when the sled is raised up off the ground. Once you compress the springs with your weight, the track raises up off of the shock mount.

[Hec In Omaha]

By using the Liquifire skid and welding the tabs on the Trailfire arms, you are essentially creating a Sportfire rear skid. I am not sure if the track rubs the top of the shock mount on the Sportfire but it is normal for this to happen on the Liquifire when the sled is raised up off the ground. Once you compress the springs with your weight, the track raises up off of the shock mount.

harleysportster,

I was thinking the same thing! I have been studying the designs of these two suspensions and thought that may happen with the Liquifire. I don't own a Liquifire or 83-84 Sportfire so it was pure speculation on my part. As a Mechanical Engineer I tend to overanalyze everything. It's a curse I have to deal with! I was concerned about this exact situation since the Liquifire's rear upper idlers move up and down with the rear arm. If the rear arm pivots and drops, or the suspension is unloaded as in the picture, the upper idlers will drop too. This will leave the upper shock mount vulnerable to belt contact. This is not the case with the Trailfire or the early Sportfire set up as the rear upper idlers are attached to the tunnel not the suspension rear arm. They can't move!
Hmm... maybe this is just one more reason to use the existing Trailfire Upper Idler Shaft and Idler Wheels installed in the factory location!

Working though this piece by piece!

Hec

[harleysportster]

If you are using the all rubber track from the liquifire, I would think you should use the rear idler on the swing arm set up, not the tunnel style of the Trailfire.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[smitfire]

By using the Liquifire skid and welding the tabs on the Trailfire arms, you are essentially creating a Sportfire rear skid. I am not sure if the track rubs the top of the shock mount on the Sportfire but it is normal for this to happen on the Liquifire when the sled is raised up off the ground. Once you compress the springs with your weight, the track raises up off of the shock mount.

harleysportster,

I was thinking the same thing! I have been studying the designs of these two suspensions and thought that may happen with the Liquifire. I don't own a Liquifire or 83-84 Sportfire so it was pure speculation on my part. As a Mechanical Engineer I tend to overanalyze everything. It's a curse I have to deal with! I was concerned about this exact situation since the Liquifire's rear upper idlers move up and down with the rear arm. If the rear arm pivots and drops, or the suspension is unloaded as in the picture, the upper idlers will drop too. This will leave the upper shock mount vulnerable to belt contact. This is not the case with the Trailfire or the early Sportfire set up as the rear upper idlers are attached to the tunnel not the suspension rear arm. They can't move!
Hmm... maybe this is just one more reason to use the existing Trailfire Upper Idler Shaft and Idler Wheels installed in the factory location!

Working though this piece by piece!

Hec

Never had a problem with the arm dropping and then the track rubbing. The wheels move with the arm, they won't rub.

[Hec In Omaha]

All,

Here are a couple of pics of the track and suspension on the 80' Liquifire parts sled I plan on picking up Tomorrow. I hope it's in decent shape!

Hec